Has anyone heard from Vermont about their interview schedule at ASA? It doesn't look like they've identified their committee yet, and I haven't heard yea or nay on my request to meet with them. Have they gotten back to other folks?
I also havent heard from Wells. I got an invite from Temple today (after waiting a couple of weeks). Got an invite from Tufts over the weekend. Still waiting on Vermont though. I also heard at a conference I was at over the weekend that some schools tried to register too late, and it was already full. So, expect many more good schools to be doing interviews at the conference than what you see posted on the ASA Employment Service.
2:15 should still apply to Wilmington. Not getting an interview at the ASAs doesn't mean they wouldn't want to screen your application package in the fall.
I still think some of the ASA interview denials boil down to scheduling conflicts. These schools wont be interviewing every single minute. It might just be a function of a lot of people offering to interview at the same time as you (and they put in their request before you).
No - you don't really select a time to interview, you just leave time slots either open or blocked. I suppose if you were very restrictive about your time slots, that could affect getting an invite. My schedule's pretty spread out, a couple on Sat, a couple on Sun and one on Monday.
Hmmm. I just registered tonight - onsite - and have only notified 4 schools. Of course I did this before I read this blog, so now I'm pretty sure it was a waste of 25 bucks!
I don't think it is a waste of time. I've done a few and they went okay. If you signed up on-site, I wonder if employers have spots left to schedule more interviews.
On the one hand, I wish you well and hope you get plenty of interviews. On the other hand, if I could have just showed up and done everything on-site, then I could have saved myself two months of checking the listings every day.
For those of you worrying about why you haven't heard back....My department is interviewing at ASA and it is amazing how many requests have been received from candidates compared to how many available interview slots there are. We started booking interviews several weeks ago so those who have just recently registered may get short-changed. So don't get too terribly discouraged if you didn't hear back -- just apply and/or introduce yourself to someone from that department at the meeting.
Did any of you ever hear back from UVM? I'm wondering if I didn't receive word from them or if they ended up not participating.
Also, whether of not the interviews went well, is anyone feeling a bit let down by the experience? It was exciting to have the interviews scheduled, and, now, well ... it's on to the "real" thing ...
It seems to me like there is less advertisement from the big R1 schools than last year. Does that mean that they're not hiring or that they haven't advertised yet?
R1 schools dont have to interview at ASA because interested candidates will find them whether they are at ASA or not. Additionally, since most hiring at the R1s comes from networks between faculty at the "best" schools, I think most of the R1 schools see the ASA meat market as a waste of time.
I wasn't asking about the job service at ASA, I was asking about advertising in the regular ASA website. There were several R1s there but a couple important ones were missing.
The Yale School of Management is seeking additional tenure-line faculty members at all levels in the area of organizational behavior. Ph.D. or equivalent is required; research and teaching interest in theory and application preferred. Appointments will commence at the beginning of the 2008 – 2009 academic year.
To apply online, visit: http://mba.yale.edu/faculty/openings.htm.
Please note that the Yale School of Management will only be accepting electronic applications. Please visit the website for instructions on how to submit your application and letters of recommendation electronically.
The deadlines for receipt of all materials are:
November 1, 2007: Junior Organizational Behavior November 1, 2007: Senior Organizational Behavior
Yale is an equal opportunity, affirmative action employer and especially encourages applications from women and members of minority groups.
The last I knew Harvard was only hiring for an advanced associated or full professor position. Yale and Princeton have both listed their positions on the ASA job bank. I have not heard that Columbia is hiring but have heard that they treat their junior faculty very poorly.
Davis has hired the past couple years (both times they picked people from the same graduate program I noticed!), so they might not be looking this year.
And if they are, you might not be at the right school for them since they seem to have a preference ;)
I'm interested in the Pepperdine job but I haven't a clue how I'm supposed to explain how my "perceived fit with the university’s Christian and liberal arts orientation." (quote from listing on ASA)
What could they be looking for in terms of asking for "fit with the university's christian orientation?" Are they just checking that I'm not a godless heathen? Or do I need to provide some evidence of "christianness" or just include something about presenting multiple perspectives.
If anyone has applied for a similar position, I'd appreciate the help.
I would call or email and ask them. They will probably tell you exactly what they want or expect, which is better than guessing. Plus they'll know you're interested!
Thanks 5:38 and 8:04, I think I'll e-mail the chair and go from there.
11:05...I'll pray for you and especially your friends and family, since I'm sure it's not solely the anonymity of the web that would lead you to respond with such mean-spirited sarcasm to a legitmate question. I can only wonder what you must be like in person...good luck on the market.
i'm sorry you got such an unkind response to your question. while i am not religious in the least, i respect a private college's right to have a religious mission and to consider that in their hiring decisions. i would hope that we soon-to-be professional sociologists would extend our appreciation of diversity to include spiritual diversity as well.
Apparently both our sarcasm's were missed by each other. We christian sociologists are a thin-skinned bunch, quick to see a sarcastic jibe as mean spirited. All is forgiven.
How many places are people applying to? My adviser applied to 2 schools when he was on the market and (obviously) landed a job. On the other hand, I have heard it is not unusual for students to send out 50+ applications.
So to those willing to share: how many places are you applying?
I have 25 on my list: 10 top choice, 10 second choice, and 5 back ups. My dissertation chair thinks its too many, but others say to apply to as many as you want depending on what you are looking for.
I have about 30 on my list. Last year, I did 6 and got a post-doc that I couldn't take. I also got short-listed at a place where the funding for the position dried up.
Of the 30, there are a good 10 or so that I feel great about and then about 10 or so that are fine and then there are some that I probably shouldn't apply to at all.
And none are with the 10 programs - as a person coming from a top-25 but not top-10, I don't even feel like wasting my time. Perhaps that's not the most useful attitude to take...
Appropriate?? I don't understand this philosophy. What if you only want 6 of the jobs you see listed? It's inappropriate to apply only for the jobs you actually might want? Or is it inappropriate for you to be interested in only 6 of the jobs? What am I missing here?
It really depends on if you need a job, or if you can wait around another year to see if something better comes along. If you need a job, you'd be crazy to apply to only 6, no matter what your CV looks like. Trust me, this process is so random and complex; you never know where you will end up.
Our department received 194 applications for an open, junior search last year, fyi.
There's no set rule for how long you might wait after an application deadline. There are tens of things that can interrupt a search. In a smaller dept, all members of the dept might need to read all the apps, thereby slowing it down. There may be a backlog between the dept and the other units of the school that need to approve short lists and interview requests (such as deans, provosts, or Affirmative Action offices). There may be internal dissension about short listing and whom to interview. There may be a financial change in the institution that disrupts the progress of a tenure track search. Open searches may require a LOT of discussion to narrow down the short list. Even with specific areas listed, there can be a lot of debate about who would best complement existing faculty, thus slowing the search. Some committees will meet immediately after a deadline, having reviewed apps all along, then submit their (long-)short list choices to the requisite school bureaucrats and approval units. And then wait and wait, be challenged to look more deeply at the pool (for equity reasons, etc), and have to redraw the decisions and redo the process of getting to a (long-)short list. You may also be (long-)short listed but not invited to campus (short listed), but you would not know if you were literally ranked 4th. If the first 3 don't work out - and that might take months - the committee may come back to you, #4. Lots of variables here, sorry to say, but also...just trying to give you perspective.
I just want to second what 7:45 said. There is much discussion on this wiki re: department ranking and status, and while that is certainly important, the junior hire selection process is very deeply indeterminate. This is my second year on the market, and there are so many factors outside of a glittering cv from Prestigious East Coast Private University, from dept. size, to time crunches, to who’s going through a bad divorce, to dean’s influence, to who hates whom, that you never really know until you get the phone call. My advice – once you drop the packet in the mail, forget it ever existed.
I second that advice. I also spent last year fretting over my applications. There is so much you cannot control, so look after what you can, and then let it go.
Southwestern says they will have a short-list by October and notify all applicants of their status. They will invite short-listed candidates in December.
It depends. It could be just three candidates to be invited for job talks. Sometimes it would be more than that. That said, some shortlisted ones get never invited for campus visit.
I just prepared all my apps today. What I found was the higher-up the program, the less they wanted (i.e., just a letter and a cv and _a list_ of references). It was the schools on the lower rungs of the totem pole that wanted a letter, cv, writing samples, a teaching portfolio, and a pound of flesh....
I don't agree with the post about higher up schools wanting less. I am applying to 20 R1's, and all but four of them asked for THREE writing samples up front. Three of them even asked for teaching evaluations.
If you look, for example, at Berkeley, Irvine, Chicago, Standford and Northwestern- among others- they ask you to send in writing samples in the beginning.
I don't agree with the post about higher up schools wanting less. I am applying to 20 R1's, and all but four of them asked for THREE writing samples up front. Three of them even asked for teaching evaluations.
If you look, for example, at Berkeley, Irvine, Chicago, Stanford and Northwestern- among others- they ask you to send in writing samples in the beginning.
In response to Anonymous 9:06's posts: Why do you suppose that the lower-tier institutions want more materials? One possible reason is that the lower-tier institutions tend to make hiring decisions more rapidly. Having all the materials in one batch helps expedite the decision.
Or perhaps it is to weed out the non-serious applicants from the more serious ones? The more serious applicants will put in a great deal of time into the application materials, even if it requires 50 lbs of tree. The search committee of the lower-tier institutions can usually tell, I imagine, based on the application materials, who is seriously considering their application, and who is simply applying as a back-up plan.
Too bad it would be professional suicide to just write, "Look, I know your department isn't highly ranked and I could probably do better but I really want this job and I don't really want that job at Michigan and I didn't even apply there so please oh please take my application seriously!!!"
Yes, it's possible that I'm not the best fit or perhaps I could do better -- but your school is located within an hour's drive of my entire extended family and a decently sized industrial area so that my partner does not have to throw his hard won career in the toilet for me to take a prestigious job at a campus in the middle of nowhere.
So please take my application seriously because I'm looking to settle down for a long long time.
I've been on several junior searches in my department. One major concern we have is whether applicants are serious about moving to our community. 10:04, I know our department would seriously consider statements about one's interest in the area. Perhaps find a subtle way to make some of your points about why the area is important. You know, it's a real drain to recruit and invest a couple years in a new hire, just to have them leave because they had no ties to the community. No one wants to do another search. If you think it's a lot of work for applicants, let me tell you it's tons more for faculty in small departments. Keep in mind my points come from experience in a small, private liberal arts school.
8:40, are you at my school?! Seriously, he/she is right--definitely mention such connections in your cover letter! We pay close attention to that kind of stuff in our department. You could say, "Having grown up in X, my spouse and I have an affinity for that area and would love to be closer to family. In addition, my spouse feels confident about finding work in her field in X."
I'm trying to plan out my schedule for the next few months--I'd like to visit family who live abroad during the week of Thanksgiving.
Is it safe to presume that no one schedules interview/fly-outs during Thanksgiving week? Or that if I am offered a fly-out, I'll be given a 2-week window to negotiate?
For schools with application deadlines in mid-Sept, about when is the earliest I can expect to hear about interviews, assuming I make it to the short-list.
Our deadline is mid-sept; and we expect to invite candidates for interviews well before the end of Oct. Hope that's helpful. I think the answer probably is, you could hear within one-two weeks, but it also might take a month or more, depending on how quickly places intend/are able to move.
I have had a couple schools thus far write to me after receiving my packet and ask for some additional something that wasn't requested in the posting. One school wanted a transcript and another wanted a sample of my scholarly work.
Is this a good sign? Does this mean I made some kind of cut somewhere? Or does this mean they forgot to put it in the job posting and now want everyone to send this extra stuff?
It's hard to tell. The request could mean many different things, some good, some not so good, some completely irrelevant. I would not put too much stock in it.
Hmm...maybe 9:12 is jealous? How could it mean anything but something good? I seriously doubt that places are asking everyone to send in something new. I think it's a good sign!
I agree with 6:05. A search committee would not request additional materials from you unless they already liked what they saw. There can be no bad reason for requesting more materials...
I agree. Requesting additional materials isn't a bad thing. That is, unless they request things you don't have -- like dissertation chapters. At the same time, I wouldn't invest too much in getting a request. A committee's interest can be fleeting.
Any chance we can respond to posts without resorting to childish namecalling? I didn't read 9:12's post to be even remotely "jealous." I thought it was informative and realistic.
I'm the one who posted the question about being asked for additional materials...
I should have mentioned that this has happened to me so far for 3 positions I have applied to, two of which have started review and one has not (formally anyway). Also, they all say they will not review until all materials are in, and I know one of my letter-writers is being slow and didn't send out letters until this week, after I got the request for more "stuff".
That was why I asked if anyone else had a similar experience. My initial thought was that they wanted something that they forgot to list in the job posting.
So to add to my initial question...has anyone else been asked to provide more "stuff" than requested in the job posting? If so, did it happen before your application was complete or before formal review began?
Maybe we should be posting who is asking for what? Does that tell us something about the status of the searches?
It seemes like that might be useful information, especially if schools who claim not to have started review are asking for additional information. That might give us a swift kick in the pants to get some of those applications in earlier than we had planned.
I didn’t post that out of jealousy. It was based on what hiring committee members have told me. Think of it this way – selection criteria are used to both include and exclude candidates. Some schools request more material from candidates when they’re looking for reasons to put you in the “no” pile.
Here’s a quick example – transcripts. A hiring committee might have 40 candidates out of 200 applications in the “maybe” pile, and decide that in order to make a long list, they’ll ask for transcripts and use a decision rule like “less than 4.0 = no.” You might even have a 3.8. See, requests for addition materials are not automatically in your benefit.
Again, I’m not making this up. I’m at an R1, and this is how it goes.
Grades in graduate school certainly do matter. Why else would institutions keep them, and then ask for them in hiring searches? If your school doesn’t use a 4.0 system, then obviously a hiring committee will have to use some other selection criterion (i.e., in your candidacy). That does not automatically mean this stipulation applies to all candidates.
I was under the impression that most of the top schools do not give grades in graduate school. We're top-5 and we just give "pass" when you finish a class.
Maybe they want transcripts to see what kinds of classes you took, but I doubt anyone cares about your grad school GPA since a lot of schools don't do grades.
I wonder how effective grad school gpa is at indicating future success. I haven't taken a class in over 2 years. Being a good student and being a good scholar are two different things.
Maybe I can see if a search committee put a lot of stock in high passing grades for comprehensive/doctoral exams. But if my performance in my theory class 5 years ago is make or break... I don't know if I want that job...
(note: this is a tangent, not related to status of searches... I'm just blathering along until I hear something from schools...)
In recent years, there have been very important people at US universities discovered to have "made up" their credentials. Transcripts are the first step in assessing whether you are really enrolled. When you get hired, you'll have to submit a final transcript.
Transcripts also communicate which classes you've had. If you apply for a crime position, they want to see several crime classes listed.
This is true for CVs too. They are the biggest give away when people try "appear" as if they are experts in a particular area. Let's say...if you have no presentations or papers in the area of sexuality, then why are you applying for a sexuality job. This alerts the committee that you might be exaggerating your "fit." Make sense?
CVs communicate much more than you think, so be careful.
Dear 6:10AM, For your future searches, if you only care about publications, please ask that we send you only a list of publications. It would be a lot easier for both sides. Thank you! Applicant
I'm curious if the person who was asked to send supplemental materials got those requests from places that only asked for the basics in the job ad. It would make sense for those folks to begin asking for more materials from applicants who seem to be a good fit as those applications come in.
I'm all for disclosing which college or university is asking for what, when. That's part of what this blog's all about...information-gathering. As soon as I hear something, I'll let you know.
i'm the one who was asked to send in extra "stuff". i have been hesitant to name the schools that have asked for additional materials because i honestly wouldn't want someone else who applied and wasn't asked for more stuff to feel out of the running. it is like someone said, they may ask for more materials to make a decision about a borderline candidate.
the "stuff" i was asked to submit was transcripts, more writing samples, and "evidence of teaching ability" (whatever that is - i have never taught to perhaps i am SOL now!).
and yes, the three schools that requested this had all initially asked for rather brief packets: cover letter, cv, recc's. i will say they are 2 R1s and an R2.
Generally evidence of teaching effectiveness means they hope to see sample syllabi of relevant courses and teaching evaluations. It is useful to put quantitative evaluations into a nice summary table and to pull out quotes from qualitative evaluations. It isn't necessary to include tons of the actual evaluations. Be sure to do a short write-up where you discuss what is good, what needs work and how these data are helping you improve your teaching.
While I admire your desire not to upset anyone, the point of this wiki is to increase the amount of information about this process. So while some people may be upset, I for one would be interested in knowing which schools asked you for more info. As previous posters mentioned, this might not be positive, but at least it tells us that these places have initiated the process.
It many ways, not having any information is worse than negative news. Just my opinion.
I agree with 9:17, please let us know which schools have contacted you. Information is better than no information. You can't help if others will get upset (if people do at all). But you can help out this community by sharing information. Please post! Thank you!
Come on...no one's heard anything about anyone getting a call from any of the schools yet? Someone must have heard something. Even the slightest piece of news would be helpful at this point. I need to know what I can rule out. I can't take the waiting.
It's likely we won't hear much until October, even for those schools with early deadlines. We have to keep in mind they tend to receive 50 to 70 applications at a small school to well over 200 at a top R1. It takes time to review each application and to hold meetings with colleagues to discuss finalists.
5:50, I understand your feeling because I am in the same situation. But we actually need solid information about shortlists, not the nuts-and-bolts details between us and the schools. If someone here says that s/he was shortlisted by a specific school, then I would erase it from my list and (try to) forget about it. But slightest piece of information might only escalate my blood pressure. Please do not be offended. And I am sure that I will let you know if I were -- hopefully (sigh..) -- shortlisted. Of course, I know you would do the same ^^
I got EOE forms from Berkeley and UCI by email. UCI indicated that more information would follow in October. I also agree that posting info is good for all of us so that we can put some schools out of our mind. I'm going crazy thinking about all the schools I've applied for and I'd like to know if I'm not in the running somewhere. also, how long does it take for SLAC's to start getting back to you after their deadline? and how many apps do top SLACs get like Bowdoin, Wesleyan, etc.?
I don't think anyone should be pressured to divulge any personal information, nor should they be criticized for deciding not to. The original poster just asked a question - has this happened to anyone?
Also, we know that some people on hiring committees read this blog. If someone says they have been short-listed at school A and B, they might as well use their name because deductive disclosure would be simple at that point.
That being said, here is what I can pass along:
Iowa will request additional materials from a "list of outstanding candidates" which they will contact after Oct. 15.
Akron is currently screening and will request additional materials from selected candidates.
All the other places I applied have only sent a confirmation letter and an EEO form.
It's not as if we'll withdraw our apps if we suddenly feel out of the running because one of us got a call. We'll just feel some disappointment, maybe hope it means nothing, and move on...one less thing to wonder about ("Has this school made any moves?") is certainly helpul as far as I'm concerned.)
I've not heard from IUP beyond the EOE request. If it helps, I'm a small fish. I fit the description well, but my cover letter didn't adequately reflect how interested I am in the job.
i applied for about 25 positions, mostly at lesser-ranked R1s and R2s. i have gotten letters and EEO forms from most places, but nothing else.
i am a small fish too, and i could have done a better job in the cover letter. but what's done is done. i agree - we're not going to withdraw our apps based on anything we read here. and info. about searches would be great.
but i also agree that no one should feel pressured to share potentially identifying information. the multiple comments criticizing the person who didn't want to name names really bothered me.
My understanding of this medium: the more info the better for everyone. This is the point of the blog and the Wiki, accepting that each bit of info is always "rumor." One can post anonymously, and using anonymous lingo. If I know for whatever reason that X University has a short list, or School W asked for more materials, I simply post that statement. Attribution and substantiation are not required. It is assumed that we are all sharing the best available info. EOE letters only confirm that your application was received. Not very helpful info for the blog.
Last year, we had on the wiki two useful sections: (i) "schools rumored to have a short list" and (ii) schools rumored to have invited cnadidates." Is it possible to do this again this year? I imagine this will satisfy (with full anonymity) peoples' varied requests and concerns.
I'm not 12:01, I've refreshed the page, gone back to the home page, and I'm still missing those sections. Are they using the same headings the OP quoted?
The sections on interviews, hirings, etc. are NOT on the soc rumor mill, they're on another page, the sociology wiki. There is a link from the SRM main page, top right corner, under the link to the Chronicle.
I'm skeptical about this rumor. I know that Berkeley moves very slow in terms of a long list, and I doubt that either of these places would be moving a mere 5 days after the closing date.
But this blog would be a good place for the folks who were actually contacted to corroborate.
usually phone. an advisor once told me that during job hunting season it is best to be careful when answering the phone, if you don't recognize the number. sometimes it's best to let them leave a message and call them back (within a day's time) when you are calm and collected. the impression they get of you during this call can be very important.
We seek candidates who will advance the university’s commitment to diversity and multiculturalism.
Of course members of minority groups are getting preference in hiring by sociology departments. For sociologists to deny that is outrageous, when many of them have worked very hard to get here.
Seeking "diversity" is not the same as ACTUALLY hiring them.
You stated, "Of course members of minority groups are getting preference in hiring by sociology departments. For sociologists to deny that is outrageous, when many of them have worked very hard to get here."
When you refer to "many of them have worked very hard to get here," who do you mean exactly? White sociologists? As opposed to the lazy-ass nonwhite sociologists who have to rely on handouts???!
Maybe we could have a different blog section on the political implications of the sociology job market.
These are valid questions/concerns. But, I'd rather not address them in *this* forum. Let's stick to information and inquiries about interviews and status of searches.
Hmmmm, as soon as a racial issue gets brought up everybody wants to sweep it under the rug. Isn't that what white people have been doing for decades...??
Yes, its a legitimate and important topic. I think we _should_ talk about it. However, I was just proposing that we create a new forum/thread on this blog to talk about it.
too bad. this blog was quite useful last year. this year the tension and anxiety of the job market is being cultivated more than alleviated. it's hard to imagine anyone with a reason to visit this blog doesn't consider "minority status" an important hiring issue, but please, save the sniping and baiting for an opinion blog and stick to the aims of this one...
I agree that it is a valid subject. I was personally shocked (and a little horrified) last year when a while male friend of mine on the market commiserated at how he was being discriminated against and that women have all the advantages in employment. What looks like inequality at the individual level may be valid attempts at equality on the social level.
However, I read this thread frequently to find out the status of job searches and having a lot of posts not discussing that makes it hard to find the info I need.
I say, move this to the "misc discussion" board or the "pass the time" board.
And since I just complained about posts not addressing the thread, I can say that Rice has NOT informed at least some of the candidates who did not make the short list.
Re: Race and Hiring. It is an important discussion, but it is off-topic for this thread. This thread, is pretty clearly about finding out the status of searches.
Now that people are starting to get information, and we can actually begin to find out the status of searches, let's try to keep it on topic and useful for everybody, not just a space to vent frustations.
well, guess I didn't make the rice shortlist as I didn't get an email. thanks for the info though! it's nice to take that out of my mind. i was wondering how common it is to be notified by phone rather than email for short lists?
Just because you did not make the short-list does not mean that you are not being considered. The only way you know for sure that you are out of the running is if you get a letter of rejection. Otherwise, you may still have a shot. Schools usually have multiple lists--the short-short list, the back-up list and the back-up to the back-up list.
If you're not on the short list, you're 99% out of luck. Short lists are usually 3-5 candidates, and very rarely does a job fall all the way through. Especially a highly attractive one like Rice.
The letter of rejection will not be sent until the candidate signs the paper. So they will not appear in your mailbox for anywhere from 3-6 months from now.
That's what I meant...Rice did not inform those of us they rejected that we had been rejected. I didn't realize they waited until an offer was accepted before sending out the "Thanks but no thanks" letters. My mistake.
How does that work for "open until position filled" jobs? When do they notify the candidates they reject?
Any news on short lists for some of the early places?
Not really a search status, but Colorado State has sent people emails to confirm that they received the initial application package, and then follow-up emails to let them know when their letters come in and their application is complete.
It is not necessarily true that rejection letters are sent only after a contract is signed. It depends on the school. There are some candidates that schools reject out right, especially among schools that who are not desperate to fill a position.
I was a bit surprised by Rice moving that fast, too.
For any folks who had their stuff postmarked by the 15th, Rice only had their apps for 1-2 days before they made a short list.
Not that I expected Rice to take much longer, but I figured they would take at least 4-5 days after they had received all the applications before they informed short list folks.
Then again, they're loaded with cash. They probably wanted to move quick and grab stars before they go elsewhere.
I heard from a fellow candidate in my program that Notre Dame called her about a week ago to talk about her application and request some additional materials. She hasn't heard anything else. Not sure whether this means they have a short list (or a long-short list?), but they obviously have called some people for more info.
The speed of the hiring process is startling (I'm referring to Rice and Washington State, apparently).
It's really bizarre how anyone can be contacted for an interview already. I thought the traditional process was first weed out those who passed the first round of outright rejections through telephone interviews, and then invite the ones who passed the telephone interviews for an on-campus interview.
Remember; being shortlisted doesn't mean an interview (at least in the parlance I'm used to). If a department gets 150+ apps, they might have 20 people on their "shortlist." From there, either through deliberations or telephone interviews, they narrow down to the 3 people to interview.
I'm afraid in the case of Washington State they are actually conducting on campus interviews - I know this for certain as somebody I know got an interview there.
there are two different searches at washington state, with two different deadlines (one in august, one in october). if you go to the university human resources page you'll see that the descriptions are pretty similar or maybe even identical, but they have two different search committees with two different committee chairs. not quite sure why, but it explains the confusion.
4:43PM, that threw me for a bit, too. The job you're looking at on the ASA Job Bank now is not the same one -- it's not the Pullman campus. It's confusing because the preferences for specialization are the same.
8:53 - I don't think there's necessarily a "standard" terminology. I have always heard the terms used as 5:34 uses it - the short list is the list of 10 or so candidates from whom the interviewees are selected. Or sometimes a school does phone interviews with the whole shortlist.
2,327 comments:
1 – 200 of 2327 Newer› Newest»Has anyone heard from Vermont about their interview schedule at ASA? It doesn't look like they've identified their committee yet, and I haven't heard yea or nay on my request to meet with them. Have they gotten back to other folks?
I haven't heard anything from them either. I don't think they have identified who is in charge yet.
That's interesting in of itself.
I'll just add to the chorus that I have not heard from them, either...
Has anyone notified Hunter and heard back from them?
I heard from Hunter about 1-2 weeks ago.
Same question - Furman or UNC-Wilmington?
Has anyone heard from UVM by now (8/5)? How about Wells College, University of Miami, or Colorado College? Thanks!
Colorado college scheduled an ASA interview in July
Still haven't heard from Wells
10:29 AM: What's your subfield? Are you from a top 10 school? I hope you don't mind. Just curious, that's all...
This is 10:29. I am in economic sociology (loosely defined) and from a top 10 school.
I also haven't heard from Wells.
If you haven't heard yet, I wouldn't worry too much. I had put in my name for ASA interviews months ago for some places, and am only now hearing back.
This used to be a paper process that took place at the meeting, so some schools might be waiting until the last minute out of habit.
I also havent heard from Wells. I got an invite from Temple today (after waiting a couple of weeks). Got an invite from Tufts over the weekend. Still waiting on Vermont though. I also heard at a conference I was at over the weekend that some schools tried to register too late, and it was already full. So, expect many more good schools to be doing interviews at the conference than what you see posted on the ASA Employment Service.
Have people heard from UI Chicago? I know they posted late, but it is getting so close!
I'm seeing a lot more activity this week. If Aug 5 is still curious, UNC-Wilmington is starting to schedule interviews.
Re: UNC-Wilmington - darn, that means I'm not getting one.
I did just an invite from Wells.
If it makes you feel better. I got one from Wilmington but not from Wells. Perhaps it's just a crap shoot, like the rest of the process.
It makes me feel a little better, but I'd still rather live on the Carolina shore than the Finger Lakes in upstate NY (with 8 months of winter)!
August 7- UI Chicago sent invites
Hey, 2:44pm, did they send them long ago?
2:15 should still apply to Wilmington. Not getting an interview at the ASAs doesn't mean they wouldn't want to screen your application package in the fall.
I still think some of the ASA interview denials boil down to scheduling conflicts. These schools wont be interviewing every single minute. It might just be a function of a lot of people offering to interview at the same time as you (and they put in their request before you).
Either you don't select a time to interview or I did mine incorrectly...
I do agree about the scheduling, though. I got 7 invitations on Saturday and none any other time.
No - you don't really select a time to interview, you just leave time slots either open or blocked. I suppose if you were very restrictive about your time slots, that could affect getting an invite. My schedule's pretty spread out, a couple on Sat, a couple on Sun and one on Monday.
urgent question: where do these interviews take place?
ASA's
Hmmm. I just registered tonight - onsite - and have only notified 4 schools. Of course I did this before I read this blog, so now I'm pretty sure it was a waste of 25 bucks!
I don't think it is a waste of time. I've done a few and they went okay. If you signed up on-site, I wonder if employers have spots left to schedule more interviews.
On the one hand, I wish you well and hope you get plenty of interviews. On the other hand, if I could have just showed up and done everything on-site, then I could have saved myself two months of checking the listings every day.
For those of you worrying about why you haven't heard back....My department is interviewing at ASA and it is amazing how many requests have been received from candidates compared to how many available interview slots there are. We started booking interviews several weeks ago so those who have just recently registered may get short-changed. So don't get too terribly discouraged if you didn't hear back -- just apply and/or introduce yourself to someone from that department at the meeting.
Hi all,
Did any of you ever hear back from UVM? I'm wondering if I didn't receive word from them or if they ended up not participating.
Also, whether of not the interviews went well, is anyone feeling a bit let down by the experience? It was exciting to have the interviews scheduled, and, now, well ... it's on to the "real" thing ...
It seems to me like there is less advertisement from the big R1 schools than last year. Does that mean that they're not hiring or that they haven't advertised yet?
R1 schools dont have to interview at ASA because interested candidates will find them whether they are at ASA or not. Additionally, since most hiring at the R1s comes from networks between faculty at the "best" schools, I think most of the R1 schools see the ASA meat market as a waste of time.
I wasn't asking about the job service at ASA, I was asking about advertising in the regular ASA website. There were several R1s there but a couple important ones were missing.
Which ones are you looking for?
did anyone else interview at ASA with UT San Antonio? If so, impressions? Did they seem to be interviewing just about everyone or only a few?
i'm at a top-5 and we put in to hire but won't know if we get the position funded for a few more months. so maybe thats the case for other places?
6:34: I was wondering about Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Davis, Washington, a general UCLA position etc.
Yale:
The Yale School of Management is seeking additional tenure-line faculty members at all levels in the area of organizational behavior. Ph.D. or equivalent is required; research and teaching interest in theory and application preferred. Appointments will commence at the beginning of the 2008 – 2009 academic year.
To apply online, visit: http://mba.yale.edu/faculty/openings.htm.
Please note that the Yale School of Management will only be accepting electronic applications. Please visit the website for instructions on how to submit your application and letters of recommendation electronically.
The deadlines for receipt of all materials are:
November 1, 2007: Junior Organizational Behavior
November 1, 2007: Senior Organizational Behavior
Yale is an equal opportunity, affirmative action employer and especially encourages applications from women and members of minority groups.
Princeton is hiring a jr demographer who does policy; will likely be a joint appointment with a social science dept. and the woodrow wilson school.
The last I knew Harvard was only hiring for an advanced associated or full professor position. Yale and Princeton have both listed their positions on the ASA job bank. I have not heard that Columbia is hiring but have heard that they treat their junior faculty very poorly.
Davis has hired the past couple years (both times they picked people from the same graduate program I noticed!), so they might not be looking this year.
And if they are, you might not be at the right school for them since they seem to have a preference ;)
I'm interested in the Pepperdine job but I haven't a clue how I'm supposed to explain how my "perceived fit with the university’s Christian and liberal arts orientation." (quote from listing on ASA)
What could they be looking for in terms of asking for "fit with the university's christian orientation?" Are they just checking that I'm not a godless heathen? Or do I need to provide some evidence of "christianness" or just include something about presenting multiple perspectives.
If anyone has applied for a similar position, I'd appreciate the help.
re: pepperdine
Perhaps you could compile a portfolio of miracles, healings, etc.
I know that some religious schools ask for a "statement of faith"--maybe you could write a one-page thing about your religious background?
I would call or email and ask them. They will probably tell you exactly what they want or expect, which is better than guessing. Plus they'll know you're interested!
Thanks 5:38 and 8:04, I think I'll e-mail the chair and go from there.
11:05...I'll pray for you and especially your friends and family, since I'm sure it's not solely the anonymity of the web that would lead you to respond with such mean-spirited sarcasm to a legitmate question. I can only wonder what you must be like in person...good luck on the market.
7:20 -
i'm sorry you got such an unkind response to your question. while i am not religious in the least, i respect a private college's right to have a religious mission and to consider that in their hiring decisions. i would hope that we soon-to-be professional sociologists would extend our appreciation of diversity to include spiritual diversity as well.
i wish you the best of luck in your job search!
Well, my friends think I'm quite pleasant. At least that is what they tell me when they are not throwing rocks at me.
Look. It was sarcasm. Read this passage from the original post:
"Are they just checking that I'm not a godless heathen? Or do I need to provide some evidence of "christianness""
If that comment does not invite snark, what does?
I actually thought that the "miracles" person was kidding. I'm religious, but I laughed...I don't think he/she meant to offend...
how on earth could one find it offensive. grow up!!!
Apparently both our sarcasm's were missed by each other. We christian sociologists are a thin-skinned bunch, quick to see a sarcastic jibe as mean spirited. All is forgiven.
I'll try to be more sensitive in the future.
Number of applications?
How many places are people applying to? My adviser applied to 2 schools when he was on the market and (obviously) landed a job. On the other hand, I have heard it is not unusual for students to send out 50+ applications.
So to those willing to share: how many places are you applying?
I have 23 on my list as of now...
-cpl
I've got 22 on my list. With about 10 that I think I fit and would enjoy.
5 but within the same city area + 2 post-docs.
15 so far.
I have 25 on my list: 10 top choice, 10 second choice, and 5 back ups. My dissertation chair thinks its too many, but others say to apply to as many as you want depending on what you are looking for.
i have 34: probably about 10 that would make me leap for joy if i got an offer and the rest would leave me satisfied.
This year 15 places.
If I don't land a job this year, next year I would probably be more flexible about what I want and do 30.
I have about 30 on my list. Last year, I did 6 and got a post-doc that I couldn't take. I also got short-listed at a place where the funding for the position dried up.
Of the 30, there are a good 10 or so that I feel great about and then about 10 or so that are fine and then there are some that I probably shouldn't apply to at all.
And none are with the 10 programs - as a person coming from a top-25 but not top-10, I don't even feel like wasting my time. Perhaps that's not the most useful attitude to take...
(forgive me - I may have posted this in the wrong place earlier)
heard any rumors about Georgia jobs?
I'm waiting for something from University of Georgia, Georgia State, Georgia Tech, Emory, or University of West Georgia.
(I know about the Georgia State, Gainesville, Georgia Southwestern, and Berry College listings - they don't fit me).
Is anyone in the know?
I have 17 on my list, with no shot whatsoever at about 9 of them. So really...11 schools so far. ;)
I applied to 30 places; my advisor suggested 25-40 was appropriate.
Appropriate?? I don't understand this philosophy. What if you only want 6 of the jobs you see listed? It's inappropriate to apply only for the jobs you actually might want? Or is it inappropriate for you to be interested in only 6 of the jobs? What am I missing here?
It really depends on if you need a job, or if you can wait around another year to see if something better comes along. If you need a job, you'd be crazy to apply to only 6, no matter what your CV looks like. Trust me, this process is so random and complex; you never know where you will end up.
Our department received 194 applications for an open, junior search last year, fyi.
Someone Who's Been There
p.s. You also never know what place might pleasantly surprise you, and be the perfect fit.
Dear Someone Who's Been There...what rank is your department?
The advice I got was:
Don't apply for a position you would not be willing to accept.
Don't apply for a position that you are categorically unqualified for.
Do apply for positions you want that seem like long-shots.
Our department is an R1, don't want to say more beyond that.
Someone Who's Been There
to the georgia question - pretty sure you can take emory off your potential list.
re: emory
Why? I haven't read their posting. Do they have an inside candidate?
re: emory - no, no listing = no positions this year.
University of Tennessee at Chattanooga said they would begin review 8/10/07. Has anyone heard from them?
About how long after the review of applicants begins should we expect to hear something from the colleges we apply to?
There's no set rule for how long you might wait after an application deadline. There are tens of things that can interrupt a search. In a smaller dept, all members of the dept might need to read all the apps, thereby slowing it down. There may be a backlog between the dept and the other units of the school that need to approve short lists and interview requests (such as deans, provosts, or Affirmative Action offices). There may be internal dissension about short listing and whom to interview. There may be a financial change in the institution that disrupts the progress of a tenure track search. Open searches may require a LOT of discussion to narrow down the short list. Even with specific areas listed, there can be a lot of debate about who would best complement existing faculty, thus slowing the search. Some committees will meet immediately after a deadline, having reviewed apps all along, then submit their (long-)short list choices to the requisite school bureaucrats and approval units. And then wait and wait, be challenged to look more deeply at the pool (for equity reasons, etc), and have to redraw the decisions and redo the process of getting to a (long-)short list. You may also be (long-)short listed but not invited to campus (short listed), but you would not know if you were literally ranked 4th. If the first 3 don't work out - and that might take months - the committee may come back to you, #4. Lots of variables here, sorry to say, but also...just trying to give you perspective.
I just want to second what 7:45 said. There is much discussion on this wiki re: department ranking and status, and while that is certainly important, the junior hire selection process is very deeply indeterminate. This is my second year on the market, and there are so many factors outside of a glittering cv from Prestigious East Coast Private University, from dept. size, to time crunches, to who’s going through a bad divorce, to dean’s influence, to who hates whom, that you never really know until you get the phone call. My advice – once you drop the packet in the mail, forget it ever existed.
I second that advice. I also spent last year fretting over my applications. There is so much you cannot control, so look after what you can, and then let it go.
Wanted to pass on some sage advise I got from one of my mentors: "Remember that your first job does not have to be your last job."
Southwestern says they will have a short-list by October and notify all applicants of their status. They will invite short-listed candidates in December.
On average, how many people are on a short list? how anout a long list?
It depends. It could be just three candidates to be invited for job talks. Sometimes it would be more than that. That said, some shortlisted ones get never invited for campus visit.
I heard that usually if the university asks you for more materials it means you've been shortlisted.
A lot of them want everything but the kitchen sink already. What might additional materials be?
I just prepared all my apps today. What I found was the higher-up the program, the less they wanted (i.e., just a letter and a cv and _a list_ of references). It was the schools on the lower rungs of the totem pole that wanted a letter, cv, writing samples, a teaching portfolio, and a pound of flesh....
You'll like never know if you're out of the top 3; even if you're #4 or #5.
I don't agree with the post about higher up schools wanting less. I am applying to 20 R1's, and all but four of them asked for THREE writing samples up front. Three of them even asked for teaching evaluations.
If you look, for example, at Berkeley, Irvine, Chicago, Standford and Northwestern- among others- they ask you to send in writing samples in the beginning.
I don't agree with the post about higher up schools wanting less. I am applying to 20 R1's, and all but four of them asked for THREE writing samples up front. Three of them even asked for teaching evaluations.
If you look, for example, at Berkeley, Irvine, Chicago, Stanford and Northwestern- among others- they ask you to send in writing samples in the beginning.
In response to Anonymous 9:06's posts: Why do you suppose that the lower-tier institutions want more materials? One possible reason is that the lower-tier institutions tend to make hiring decisions more rapidly. Having all the materials in one batch helps expedite the decision.
Or perhaps it is to weed out the non-serious applicants from the more serious ones? The more serious applicants will put in a great deal of time into the application materials, even if it requires 50 lbs of tree. The search committee of the lower-tier institutions can usually tell, I imagine, based on the application materials, who is seriously considering their application, and who is simply applying as a back-up plan.
Too bad it would be professional suicide to just write, "Look, I know your department isn't highly ranked and I could probably do better but I really want this job and I don't really want that job at Michigan and I didn't even apply there so please oh please take my application seriously!!!"
That would make the whole process much easier.
and along with 7:15's honesty, I'd want to add:
Yes, it's possible that I'm not the best fit or perhaps I could do better -- but your school is located within an hour's drive of my entire extended family and a decently sized industrial area so that my partner does not have to throw his hard won career in the toilet for me to take a prestigious job at a campus in the middle of nowhere.
So please take my application seriously because I'm looking to settle down for a long long time.
I've been on several junior searches in my department. One major concern we have is whether applicants are serious about moving to our community. 10:04, I know our department would seriously consider statements about one's interest in the area. Perhaps find a subtle way to make some of your points about why the area is important. You know, it's a real drain to recruit and invest a couple years in a new hire, just to have them leave because they had no ties to the community. No one wants to do another search. If you think it's a lot of work for applicants, let me tell you it's tons more for faculty in small departments. Keep in mind my points come from experience in a small, private liberal arts school.
8:40, are you at my school?! Seriously, he/she is right--definitely mention such connections in your cover letter! We pay close attention to that kind of stuff in our department. You could say, "Having grown up in X, my spouse and I have an affinity for that area and would love to be closer to family. In addition, my spouse feels confident about finding work in her field in X."
I'm trying to plan out my schedule for the next few months--I'd like to visit family who live abroad during the week of Thanksgiving.
Is it safe to presume that no one schedules interview/fly-outs during Thanksgiving week? Or that if I am offered a fly-out, I'll be given a 2-week window to negotiate?
For schools with application deadlines in mid-Sept, about when is the earliest I can expect to hear about interviews, assuming I make it to the short-list.
11:25 and 8:40,
thanks for the tips. I will signal in my cover letter that I'm serious about moving to a community for family and the spouse's work opportunities.
I wish I had thought to post about this earlier. Most of my applications are already out.
If I get the chance to correspond with anyone over email or phone, I'll be sure to mention that I have good reasons for wanting to move to the area.
thanks to both of you.
10:04
Our deadline is mid-sept; and we expect to invite candidates for interviews well before the end of Oct. Hope that's helpful. I think the answer probably is, you could hear within one-two weeks, but it also might take a month or more, depending on how quickly places intend/are able to move.
p.s. We also always offer candidates between 2-4 choices of non-sequential days.
5:45/5:46 am,
Thank you! That's really helpful advice!
Application materials:
I have had a couple schools thus far write to me after receiving my packet and ask for some additional something that wasn't requested in the posting. One school wanted a transcript and another wanted a sample of my scholarly work.
Is this a good sign? Does this mean I made some kind of cut somewhere? Or does this mean they forgot to put it in the job posting and now want everyone to send this extra stuff?
sounds good to me. All I've gotten is EEOO forms.
5:49
re: requests for more info.
It's hard to tell. The request could mean many different things, some good, some not so good, some completely irrelevant. I would not put too much stock in it.
Hmm...maybe 9:12 is jealous? How could it mean anything but something good? I seriously doubt that places are asking everyone to send in something new. I think it's a good sign!
I agree with 6:05. A search committee would not request additional materials from you unless they already liked what they saw. There can be no bad reason for requesting more materials...
I agree. Requesting additional materials isn't a bad thing. That is, unless they request things you don't have -- like dissertation chapters. At the same time, I wouldn't invest too much in getting a request. A committee's interest can be fleeting.
Any chance we can respond to posts without resorting to childish namecalling? I didn't read 9:12's post to be even remotely "jealous." I thought it was informative and realistic.
I'm the one who posted the question about being asked for additional materials...
I should have mentioned that this has happened to me so far for 3 positions I have applied to, two of which have started review and one has not (formally anyway). Also, they all say they will not review until all materials are in, and I know one of my letter-writers is being slow and didn't send out letters until this week, after I got the request for more "stuff".
That was why I asked if anyone else had a similar experience. My initial thought was that they wanted something that they forgot to list in the job posting.
So to add to my initial question...has anyone else been asked to provide more "stuff" than requested in the job posting? If so, did it happen before your application was complete or before formal review began?
Maybe we should be posting who is asking for what? Does that tell us something about the status of the searches?
It seemes like that might be useful information, especially if schools who claim not to have started review are asking for additional information. That might give us a swift kick in the pants to get some of those applications in earlier than we had planned.
Hi, 9:12 here.
I didn’t post that out of jealousy. It was based on what hiring committee members have told me. Think of it this way – selection criteria are used to both include and exclude candidates. Some schools request more material from candidates when they’re looking for reasons to put you in the “no” pile.
Here’s a quick example – transcripts. A hiring committee might have 40 candidates out of 200 applications in the “maybe” pile, and decide that in order to make a long list, they’ll ask for transcripts and use a decision rule like “less than 4.0 = no.” You might even have a 3.8. See, requests for addition materials are not automatically in your benefit.
Again, I’m not making this up. I’m at an R1, and this is how it goes.
7:16,
would you mind disclosing which schools requested more materials?
it's fine if you'd prefer to keep it confidential but we'd/i'd love to know!
thank you!
We don't get grades in any of our grad classes. So my transcript just shows that I did take classes. Is that going to be a bad thing?
I don't think grades (in grad school) matter. I'm at a top 5 and we don't have a 4.0 system either...
I think grades might matter a little sometimes... For example, if you are pitching yourself to teach stats and you didn't do so well in those classes.
5:40
Grades in graduate school certainly do matter. Why else would institutions keep them, and then ask for them in hiring searches? If your school doesn’t use a 4.0 system, then obviously a hiring committee will have to use some other selection criterion (i.e., in your candidacy). That does not automatically mean this stipulation applies to all candidates.
9:12
only 1 out of 25 of my apps asked for a transcript.
I was under the impression that most of the top schools do not give grades in graduate school. We're top-5 and we just give "pass" when you finish a class.
Maybe they want transcripts to see what kinds of classes you took, but I doubt anyone cares about your grad school GPA since a lot of schools don't do grades.
I wonder how effective grad school gpa is at indicating future success. I haven't taken a class in over 2 years. Being a good student and being a good scholar are two different things.
Maybe I can see if a search committee put a lot of stock in high passing grades for comprehensive/doctoral exams. But if my performance in my theory class 5 years ago is make or break... I don't know if I want that job...
(note: this is a tangent, not related to status of searches... I'm just blathering along until I hear something from schools...)
In recent years, there have been very important people at US universities discovered to have "made up" their credentials. Transcripts are the first step in assessing whether you are really enrolled. When you get hired, you'll have to submit a final transcript.
Transcripts also communicate which classes you've had. If you apply for a crime position, they want to see several crime classes listed.
This is true for CVs too. They are the biggest give away when people try "appear" as if they are experts in a particular area. Let's say...if you have no presentations or papers in the area of sexuality, then why are you applying for a sexuality job. This alerts the committee that you might be exaggerating your "fit." Make sense?
CVs communicate much more than you think, so be careful.
Speaking as someone involved in an R1 search: We do not care about your grades! We don't ask for transcripts. It's pubs that matter, here, at least.
Dear 6:10AM,
For your future searches, if you only care about publications, please ask that we send you only a list of publications. It would be a lot easier for both sides.
Thank you!
Applicant
I'm curious if the person who was asked to send supplemental materials got those requests from places that only asked for the basics in the job ad. It would make sense for those folks to begin asking for more materials from applicants who seem to be a good fit as those applications come in.
I'm all for disclosing which college or university is asking for what, when. That's part of what this blog's all about...information-gathering. As soon as I hear something, I'll let you know.
i'm the one who was asked to send in extra "stuff". i have been hesitant to name the schools that have asked for additional materials because i honestly wouldn't want someone else who applied and wasn't asked for more stuff to feel out of the running. it is like someone said, they may ask for more materials to make a decision about a borderline candidate.
the "stuff" i was asked to submit was transcripts, more writing samples, and "evidence of teaching ability" (whatever that is - i have never taught to perhaps i am SOL now!).
and yes, the three schools that requested this had all initially asked for rather brief packets: cover letter, cv, recc's. i will say they are 2 R1s and an R2.
evidence of teaching ability:
-evaluations
-letters from students
-letters from your teaching assistants
-or letters from you advisors describing specifics of how you teach.
Generally evidence of teaching effectiveness means they hope to see sample syllabi of relevant courses and teaching evaluations. It is useful to put quantitative evaluations into a nice summary table and to pull out quotes from qualitative evaluations. It isn't necessary to include tons of the actual evaluations. Be sure to do a short write-up where you discuss what is good, what needs work and how these data are helping you improve your teaching.
8:01
While I admire your desire not to upset anyone, the point of this wiki is to increase the amount of information about this process. So while some people may be upset, I for one would be interested in knowing which schools asked you for more info. As previous posters mentioned, this might not be positive, but at least it tells us that these places have initiated the process.
It many ways, not having any information is worse than negative news. Just my opinion.
8:01,
I agree with 9:17, please let us know which schools have contacted you. Information is better than no information. You can't help if others will get upset (if people do at all). But you can help out this community by sharing information. Please post! Thank you!
8:01, it will also answer your question of whether they contacted everyone or not (assuming people post to say, 'nope, didn't hear from them.').
There were some jobs that had deadlines in August and early September. Does anybody get shortlisted by the schools?
I applied to a few August and early Sept deadlines. For most, I've only received a confirmation and/or an EOE card (email and snail mail).
I've heard nothing at all from Indiana U of Penn.
So, no short list for me -- yet.
Come on...no one's heard anything about anyone getting a call from any of the schools yet? Someone must have heard something. Even the slightest piece of news would be helpful at this point. I need to know what I can rule out. I can't take the waiting.
9:13 - I did get an email from Indiana U of Penn a week ago directing me to complete the EOE form.
Rumors I have heard from som early deadline places like NYU and Irvine is that they don't plan to have any decisions before October...
It's likely we won't hear much until October, even for those schools with early deadlines. We have to keep in mind they tend to receive 50 to 70 applications at a small school to well over 200 at a top R1. It takes time to review each application and to hold meetings with colleagues to discuss finalists.
I got an email from an R1 with a Sept 15 deadline saying that they weren't likely to invite people to campus until November.
7:32, Thanks, that helps.
5:50, I understand your feeling because I am in the same situation. But we actually need solid information about shortlists, not the nuts-and-bolts details between us and the schools. If someone here says that s/he was shortlisted by a specific school, then I would erase it from my list and (try to) forget about it. But slightest piece of information might only escalate my blood pressure. Please do not be offended. And I am sure that I will let you know if I were -- hopefully (sigh..) -- shortlisted. Of course, I know you would do the same ^^
8:07, could you say which one?
I got EOE forms from Berkeley and UCI by email. UCI indicated that more information would follow in October. I also agree that posting info is good for all of us so that we can put some schools out of our mind. I'm going crazy thinking about all the schools I've applied for and I'd like to know if I'm not in the running somewhere. also, how long does it take for SLAC's to start getting back to you after their deadline? and how many apps do top SLACs get like Bowdoin, Wesleyan, etc.?
8:07 - This is not a website for riddles. Just tell us the name of the school, or else don't post at all. Posting a riddle is a bit cruel.
I don't think anyone should be pressured to divulge any personal information, nor should they be criticized for deciding not to. The original poster just asked a question - has this happened to anyone?
Also, we know that some people on hiring committees read this blog. If someone says they have been short-listed at school A and B, they might as well use their name because deductive disclosure would be simple at that point.
That being said, here is what I can pass along:
Iowa will request additional materials from a "list of outstanding candidates" which they will contact after Oct. 15.
Akron is currently screening and will request additional materials from selected candidates.
All the other places I applied have only sent a confirmation letter and an EEO form.
I agree that it is still a little early to expect everyone to divulge information.
Search committees, even dept chairs (Hi Andrew!), have visited our meager blog.
In a week or so (or three), when depts have contacted multiple people, they wont be able to tell who is spilling the beans.
For now, deep breaths...
It's not as if we'll withdraw our apps if we suddenly feel out of the running because one of us got a call. We'll just feel some disappointment, maybe hope it means nothing, and move on...one less thing to wonder about ("Has this school made any moves?") is certainly helpul as far as I'm concerned.)
I've not heard from IUP beyond the EOE request. If it helps, I'm a small fish. I fit the description well, but my cover letter didn't adequately reflect how interested I am in the job.
i applied for about 25 positions, mostly at lesser-ranked R1s and R2s. i have gotten letters and EEO forms from most places, but nothing else.
i am a small fish too, and i could have done a better job in the cover letter. but what's done is done. i agree - we're not going to withdraw our apps based on anything we read here. and info. about searches would be great.
but i also agree that no one should feel pressured to share potentially identifying information. the multiple comments criticizing the person who didn't want to name names really bothered me.
-cpl
My understanding of this medium: the more info the better for everyone. This is the point of the blog and the Wiki, accepting that each bit of info is always "rumor." One can post anonymously, and using anonymous lingo. If I know for whatever reason that X University has a short list, or School W asked for more materials, I simply post that statement. Attribution and substantiation are not required. It is assumed that we are all sharing the best available info. EOE letters only confirm that your application was received. Not very helpful info for the blog.
Last year, we had on the wiki two useful sections: (i) "schools rumored to have a short list" and (ii) schools rumored to have invited cnadidates." Is it possible to do this again this year? I imagine this will satisfy (with full anonymity) peoples' varied requests and concerns.
Those sections have already been added to the wiki.
Where have those sections been added? Thanks!
Ummm...
the huge bold letters at the top of the page. Try "refresh page"
Heard today that Berkeley and Rice U have asked for more materials from folks.
12:42 - Thanks for your post. It should be used as a model for how helpful information can be disseminated anonymously as soon as possible.
I'm not 12:01, I've refreshed the page, gone back to the home page, and I'm still missing those sections. Are they using the same headings the OP quoted?
Thanks
The sections on interviews, hirings, etc. are NOT on the soc rumor mill, they're on another page, the sociology wiki. There is a link from the SRM main page, top right corner, under the link to the Chronicle.
re: Berkeley and Rice
I'm skeptical about this rumor. I know that Berkeley moves very slow in terms of a long list, and I doubt that either of these places would be moving a mere 5 days after the closing date.
But this blog would be a good place for the folks who were actually contacted to corroborate.
i applied at rice and have not heard anything from them yet.
It does say on the Wiki that Rice is generating a shortlist.
i can confirm at least the rumor that rice has a short list and has contacted some of the individuals that are on it.
heard through a friend that WKU has a shortlist
For anyone who has ever been on a short list: how do they notify you? Email, postal mail, phone call?
usually phone. an advisor once told me that during job hunting season it is best to be careful when answering the phone, if you don't recognize the number. sometimes it's best to let them leave a message and call them back (within a day's time) when you are calm and collected. the impression they get of you during this call can be very important.
Re: answering phone calls
Excellent point! I didn't even think about that.
Do minorities get preference in the job market?
5:58 p.m.: Look at the sociology department websites. Do YOU think minorities get preference? The departments still look pretty darn white to me.
Rice notified people on the short list by email.
I can confirm definitively that Rice has a short list.
5:58
what kind of sociologist asks a question like that? are you a troll or what?
could be a troll...however, take a look at the comments for the IU job at the other wiki. sorta sounds like preference.
From WSU's ad:
We seek candidates who will advance the university’s commitment to diversity and multiculturalism.
Of course members of minority groups are getting preference in hiring by sociology departments. For sociologists to deny that is outrageous, when many of them have worked very hard to get here.
8:27:
Seeking "diversity" is not the same as ACTUALLY hiring them.
You stated, "Of course members of minority groups are getting preference in hiring by sociology departments. For sociologists to deny that is outrageous, when many of them have worked very hard to get here."
When you refer to "many of them have worked very hard to get here," who do you mean exactly? White sociologists? As opposed to the lazy-ass nonwhite sociologists who have to rely on handouts???!
Hey guys--I think we should cool it a bit. This sort of stuff destroys blogs and I'm enjoying this one.
Maybe we could have a different blog section on the political implications of the sociology job market.
These are valid questions/concerns. But, I'd rather not address them in *this* forum. Let's stick to information and inquiries about interviews and status of searches.
Hmmmm, as soon as a racial issue gets brought up everybody wants to sweep it under the rug. Isn't that what white people have been doing for decades...??
I actually think it's a legitimate issue, but I wonder whether the discussion on race and hiring ought to fall under the miscellaneous post.
Yes, its a legitimate and important topic. I think we _should_ talk about it. However, I was just proposing that we create a new forum/thread on this blog to talk about it.
too bad. this blog was quite useful last year. this year the tension and anxiety of the job market is being cultivated more than alleviated. it's hard to imagine anyone with a reason to visit this blog doesn't consider "minority status" an important hiring issue, but please, save the sniping and baiting for an opinion blog and stick to the aims of this one...
I agree that it is a valid subject. I was personally shocked (and a little horrified) last year when a while male friend of mine on the market commiserated at how he was being discriminated against and that women have all the advantages in employment. What looks like inequality at the individual level may be valid attempts at equality on the social level.
However, I read this thread frequently to find out the status of job searches and having a lot of posts not discussing that makes it hard to find the info I need.
I say, move this to the "misc discussion" board or the "pass the time" board.
And since I just complained about posts not addressing the thread, I can say that Rice has NOT informed at least some of the candidates who did not make the short list.
12:48
I'm confused by your statement: "I can say that Rice has NOT informed at least some of the candidates who did not make the short list."
Generally, universities do not inform people that they did not make the short list. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant by this.
Re: Race and Hiring. It is an important discussion, but it is off-topic for this thread. This thread, is pretty clearly about finding out the status of searches.
Now that people are starting to get information, and we can actually begin to find out the status of searches, let's try to keep it on topic and useful for everybody, not just a space to vent frustations.
well, guess I didn't make the rice shortlist as I didn't get an email. thanks for the info though! it's nice to take that out of my mind. i was wondering how common it is to be notified by phone rather than email for short lists?
Just because you did not make the short-list does not mean that you are not being considered. The only way you know for sure that you are out of the running is if you get a letter of rejection. Otherwise, you may still have a shot. Schools usually have multiple lists--the short-short list, the back-up list and the back-up to the back-up list.
If you're not on the short list, you're 99% out of luck. Short lists are usually 3-5 candidates, and very rarely does a job fall all the way through. Especially a highly attractive one like Rice.
The letter of rejection will not be sent until the candidate signs the paper. So they will not appear in your mailbox for anywhere from 3-6 months from now.
That's what I meant...Rice did not inform those of us they rejected that we had been rejected. I didn't realize they waited until an offer was accepted before sending out the "Thanks but no thanks" letters. My mistake.
How does that work for "open until position filled" jobs? When do they notify the candidates they reject?
Any news on short lists for some of the early places?
Not really a search status, but Colorado State has sent people emails to confirm that they received the initial application package, and then follow-up emails to let them know when their letters come in and their application is complete.
I think that's nice of them!
Anybody surprised about how fast Rice moved? They must have had 150+ apps, and to get a short list 5 days after the closing date seems herculean.
Anyone else think it was an inside candidate?
Re: rejection letters
It is not necessarily true that rejection letters are sent only after a contract is signed. It depends on the school. There are some candidates that schools reject out right, especially among schools that who are not desperate to fill a position.
I was a bit surprised by Rice moving that fast, too.
For any folks who had their stuff postmarked by the 15th, Rice only had their apps for 1-2 days before they made a short list.
Not that I expected Rice to take much longer, but I figured they would take at least 4-5 days after they had received all the applications before they informed short list folks.
Then again, they're loaded with cash. They probably wanted to move quick and grab stars before they go elsewhere.
I heard from a fellow candidate in my program that Notre Dame called her about a week ago to talk about her application and request some additional materials. She hasn't heard anything else. Not sure whether this means they have a short list (or a long-short list?), but they obviously have called some people for more info.
Speaking of calls, quick question. I'm doing my PhD in Europe. Will I get called or e-mailed. I have listed my cellphone on my CV.
re: short list notification.
Last year, I was shortlisted twice. One notification came via phone call, the other by email.
So could be either.
Someone posted in a different threat that Washington State had a short list and had scheduled interviews.
The speed of the hiring process is startling (I'm referring to Rice and Washington State, apparently).
It's really bizarre how anyone can be contacted for an interview already. I thought the traditional process was first weed out those who passed the first round of outright rejections through telephone interviews, and then invite the ones who passed the telephone interviews for an on-campus interview.
Washington State is especially surprising since its posting on ASA states that "We will begin to review completed applications October 20, 2007..."
If the rumor is correct, it means that they are interviewing almost 1 month before the deadline!
That's fast!
No, Washington State's deadline was August 31. Still, they are moving fast.
Remember; being shortlisted doesn't mean an interview (at least in the parlance I'm used to). If a department gets 150+ apps, they might have 20 people on their "shortlist." From there, either through deliberations or telephone interviews, they narrow down to the 3 people to interview.
I'm afraid in the case of Washington State they are actually conducting on campus interviews - I know this for certain as somebody I know got an interview there.
there are two different searches at washington state, with two different deadlines (one in august, one in october). if you go to the university human resources page you'll see that the descriptions are pretty similar or maybe even identical, but they have two different search committees with two different committee chairs. not quite sure why, but it explains the confusion.
4:43PM, that threw me for a bit, too. The job you're looking at on the ASA Job Bank now is not the same one -- it's not the Pullman campus. It's confusing because the preferences for specialization are the same.
I got a "short list" email at Rice, and I'm not an inside candidate. I guess they are just fast!
Can I ask what Rice wanted in terms of additional materials, or is that a secret? :)
5:34
I think you're using the terms incorrectly. That is:
20 candidates = long list
10 = long short list
3-4 = short list
Technically, if you are short-listed, you are likely being flown out for an interview.
has anyone heard anything about the Sarah Lawrence position? they had an early deadline.
How about IUP - any movement there?
8:53 - I don't think there's necessarily a "standard" terminology. I have always heard the terms used as 5:34 uses it - the short list is the list of 10 or so candidates from whom the interviewees are selected. Or sometimes a school does phone interviews with the whole shortlist.
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