i did it couple of years ago. meat market with bells to mark time. had a lovely chat with bryn mawr who seemed quite interested, but then i didn't even get a phone interview. so i don't know if these are of any use at all. unlike the anthro meetings in nov where they seem to carry a bit more weight.
I posted this reference last year and it sparked some debate and criticism. Thought I'd post it again since I find it useful when trying to understand hiring practices in sociology. For some, Burris' article may be good news, for others, it will be sure to spark strong emotion.
I find it useful because it reminds me that sociology is a presitge-based discipline (reflected, in part, in its dominant hiring practices) and has a relatively closed system of trading grad students among the "top five" departments. It seems that many sociologists still have a long way to go in developing their critical imaginations; many act like they are in the world but not "of the world" (to paraphrase Warren Susman). The article is a good piece of research in the sociology of knowledge/material context of knowledge production and could be read for that alone.
Burris shows that academic prestige has little to do with one's ability to have a positive impact on our discipline, yet much hiring remains prestige based.
The main point (for those who don't have time to read it): Aside from departments that already garner so-called social captial because of their reputations, less prestigious departments who hire based on academic prestige do not obtain the captial they seek nor do they get linked into the social networks they want.
Val Burris. 2004 "The Academic Caste System: Prestige Hierarchies in Ph.D. Exchange Networks." American Sociological Review. 69(2):239-264.
Regarding the topic of setting up interviews at ASA--
My experience with this is that it is not uncommon for students to arrange "interviews" with faculty at places they are interested in. In the past several candidates at my R1 have set up meetings with faculty working in their area. In some cases, it led to a flyout whereas in others, it did not. It is hard to tell whether it made a difference but it does help SCs put a face to the application and I can't see how it can hurt you.
I've sent out emails to faculty to arrange informal meetings during ASA. Some emailed me back enthusiastically others never responded.
I did this last year; I had a dept. chair tell me flat out that the job was essentially mine for the taking...and then I never heard from them again. and on the flip side, the place I ultimately got a job (which was much better than the first one) wasn't even interviewing (or at least not me).
the employment service is primarily (though not exclusively) a way for mid & lower tier schools to beef up their applicant pool. It's possible it will help you, and it certainly won't hurt you unless you have horrific social skills. At the very least, it will help you hone your 3-minute dissertation spiel.
My advice? sign up for it, but limit it to one day only. otherwise it can be too draining and suck up all your time at ASA's.
I absolutely agree with 5:41. I had meetings for three jobs through the employment service, and that was plenty. Mainly, it gave me a chance to practice talking about my dissertation, and about how I position myself within the discipline. It was also useful for getting a sense of how potential employers react to my work. However, I don't feel like I need to do it again this year.
What about independently contacting faculty at schools, particularly R1 schools that don't use the ASA employment services, to discuss potential positions? Is that useful? What are people's experiences with this?
Are there any thoughts on declining an interview through ASA's Employment Service? I've been invited by a school where I had not intended to apply, but I do not want to come across as rude, especially if I end up throwing my hat into that ring after all. Any advice?
Again, I would not randomly contact faculty at schools you are interested in. Have your advisor do it, if they know someone. I'm on the TT at an R1 doing a search and we would find this quite obnoxious. Now, networking at ASA with faculty who share your interests is different, and if that resulted in getting your name out there, great.
If it's just an ASA interview, that I don't think it is a huge commitment. Even if you have other interviews scheduled, it could still be useful practice.
On the other hand, I don't think there is going to be some negative reprecussions if you don't do the ASA interview. If you're really not interested in the job, there's no reason to go through with the full application process. if you do decide that it is a job you'd apply for, once they get your full dossier, I don't think they'll hold it against you that you didn't talk to them for 10-15 minutes at ASA.
Some thoughts about the ASA merry-go-round.... They can be very useful for everyone concerned. Candidates can get a sense of whether it's worthwhile to apply. An interviewer may look at your credentials and tell you you're not right, saving you the angst of actually applying. (Remember that the interviewer knows the inner workings of the faculty who will, months later, be assessing applications.) You may spend your 20-mins with someone who seems beaten down, has nothing positive to say about the dept/job/school, or who rubs you wrong. You've just saved yourself the angst of actually applying. In terms of good things, I know of a handful of people who interviewed at ASA, got short-listed or got phone interviews later, were invited to campus, and were offered tenure-track jobs. It's a little like a lottery ticket - but there's risk with everything, isn't there? You risk some time, energy, neurosis, and in exchange you may really help your case. The faculty interviewing DO take notes and do take note of how candidates behave, whether that's accepting an interview & not showing up, showing up late, or seeming uninterested. The other posters are right that it's good practice for job talks. Your whole point in working this blog is to get input on the thing you really want, right? (namely, a job) Why not view the ASA interviews as a means to an end, to get to the point of what you want, namely, a job? ASA can be good practice for the subsequent important deal - the campus visit. (Or maybe it's just me - I would have hated to go into something so important with NO practice.) You might get a feel for what kinds of crazy questions will get tossed at you on a 2-day job talk. And finally (whew) - if you're at a top 10-15 PhD program, your faculty should be in the loop and networking a little for you. You should not be querying profs at top tier schools. They should be asking their buddies about who's hot in which field - very much strong/weak ties social networking. But keep in mind that the majority of candidates will be hired at "mid & lower tier schools" (as one poster put it), at one of the thousands of schools with a Soc Dept (not at one of the tiny few elite schools in any category). That hiring process often starts at ASA...just try to see it for what it is and relax a bit while doing it.
As one who has been interviewing others at ASA, I can vouch for the utility of the process. Departments take notes on candidates, and a positive interview at ASA will indeed make its way back to the search committee meetings. Similarly, a poor showing can have a similar effect. Over the years, we have done on-campus interviews with several ASA interviewees and have hired a few as well.
What do you look for when you interview candidates at ASA. Given that the interviews tend to be short and there is not too much time to go into depth about anything in particular, do schools generally use these interviews to assess personality/demeanor/personal style versus substantive things like research agenda, which presumably can be gained from reading the candidate's application package?
And how would you suggest a candidate goes about preparing for the interview?
First, we receive many requests from candidates but far more than the available slots we have so we must be a bit selective in terms of who we invite. Thus, if you made it to my table at ASA, you've been somewhat pre-screened for fit (although it may not be perfect). Once at the interview, I look for things like (a) can this person intelligently and thoughtfully talk to me about their work? (b) is this person's work interesting? (c) are they excited about what they're doing? (d) are they interested in hearing about my university? (e) can I see this person in front of students at my university?
Please remember that these interviews are primarily about mutual advertising, so we don't expect to get to know each candidate well. Have a 2-minute, well articulated "talking point" on your scholarly interests and work. Other than that, I would advise you to ask questions of the departmental representatives (doing just a little bit of homework on the department you interview with in advance gets high marks in my book), be excited about your work (but make sure that it is made relevant to those outside your specialization), and lastly...SMILE. Best of luck to you...
Would it be too presumptuous to ask about expectations/requirements for tenure at an ASA interview? I'd like to get a sense of how much (and where) they expect asst profs to publish, but I don't want to sound as if I assume I'll get the job.
When we show up for interviews at the ASA, do we have to have our dossier ready- what do we give them exactly (CV, writing sample etc.)? What kind of questions do they ask?
I think asking about tenure requirements is fair game. This should give you a good sense of the priorities of the university. However, you may get ambiguous responses to this question because many universities/departments have do not have well-established criteria for P&T. If they give you a blank stare on the tenure/promotion question, you can also ask about how you'll be reviewed annually, how merit pay is allocated, etc.
8:09, At minimum, I would have copies of your CV with you and ask if your interviewers would like a copy. I'm not sure I want to carry around your reprints and other stuff, but you may want to have a few copies of that in case anyone asks -- I never do.
In terms of what kinds of questions I ask, I generally ask the candidate to tell me a little about themselves (this is where you have your prepared schpiel) and typically have a conversation from there. If I don't get a clear sense of how the candidate's work relates to my position, I ask the candidate directly. I then leave at least 5 minutes for the candidate to ask questions.
I trust you'll take this with the respect that is intended, 10:39, becasue your comments are highly appreciated from us job-seekers: I'm surprised to see employers on a job-seeker's blog. What's the draw?
I peruse this site for two reasons. First, I might be tempted to put myself out there on the job market again this year and I am interested in what's going on out there. In one way or another, I've always got my eye out for other opportunities, as do many of my colleagues at mine and other universities. Secondly, from the hiring side, I want to find out all I can about candidates -- we're not just interviewing them, they're interviewing us as well.
Here's a question for anyone who has used the employment service in the past -- what do candidates wear to these micro-interviews? Do people tend to show up in "business casual" (i.e., conference-wear), or is it best to dress more formally for the interview?
I am doing a handful of interviews scattered over three days. I certainly don't have three suits.
as for what to wear (to answer 6:25) I've been told you wear a suit. period. Perhaps others have heard/know differently? From those I personally know who have interviewed at ASA in the past few years everyone wore a suit. If you don't have three suits I'd suggest getting some different shirts to wear or something - I also have interviews over three different days and really don't feel like packing three suits (plus casual clothes to wear the rest of the time!) but I figure my basic black suit can double-up a day (or two) with the right shirt.
I set up a few interviews at ASA last year. I am a male, did not wear a suit, and felt entirely comfortable at the interviews. This is not to say this is the right etiquette - only that there really is no "right" etiquette. It's possible (though unlikely) that it might rub someone the wrong way if you're not in a suit, but it's also possible that you might impress someone by ignoring the pretense associated with this process by overdressing. You may have noticed that most academics are not wearing suits around, suggesting that they won't be impressed by others wearing suits around. Especially at the ASA interviews, which are extremely informal. On my real interviews, where I did wear suits, I had several people make comments suggesting that it wasn't necessary and kind of laughing at the formality of the whole thing. My advice would be to wear whatever you think is appropriate for the setting - at the ASA interviews, a suit seems a bit too formal to me.
I agree with 9:06. I remember people laughing at the groups of young suit-wearers, saying "oh, yes, the employment service." I think it's fine to dress professionally w/o a suit. (The type of thing I wear to teach for the first couple week of class.) For women, a skirt or slacks with a nice blouse is fine.
To anonymous on July 31st, as a woman on the market I would recommend business casual. I had a successful stint on ASA job/meat market last year which led to 2 fly-outs based specifically on these brief interviews and subsequent job offers. I took one of the jobs. I only wore slacks and nice button downs to all of my ASA job market interviews. I agree that at these meetings, sociologists just aren't that formal. You want to give the impression of taking this process seriously (i.e. dress slack and pressed shirt or blouse), but there is no need to pull out the 'fly' suit until you're on the interview. Best of luck in what I know is a pretty stressful situation.
What to wear: there are race/class/gender dimensions here. Women and people of color don't have as much leeway to go ultra casual. When I interview candidates I like to see that you're taking the process seriously because it implies you'll take your job seriously, should you be hired at my school. It's not necessary to wear a formal suit but it absolutely helps to look neat, pulled together, and competent. In terms of materials - I do not want your full dossier - I wouldn't have time to read teaching evals or a writing sample. Do bring copies of your CV, which may be helpful to interviewers who would not print a CV for every candidate. The poster going by "10:39" made good points about what interviewers are looking for: do you seem lively & engaged with your work? can you communicate in a way that will give me as sense of what you might be like in front of my students? how are you selling yourself - does it seem like your interests/skills will complement and extend the department I'm in? Dare I say - try to relax a little, remember that it's only 20 minutes, be charming but genuine, and be openminded.
post-ASA...what is the proper protocol for after the interview? i know we're supposed to send a thank-you letter, but do we tell them if we plan to apply? do we make it a short "thank you" or add details about why we are still interested in the job?
what about schools we met but are not interested in? do we tell them that, or just say thank you?
finally, what about any contacts made outside the Employment Service system? i interviewed with a couple schools who contacted me via email and arranged meetings off-site at ASA, and i also spoke with a couple schools informally through network connections. do i thank them as well?
Thank-yous to everyone; and for goodness sake, never tell a place that you are not interested. You can make that call if and when they ask you for an interview, if you are confident you will have lots of other options.
I hate to slander an entire dept. based on one chat. However, my conversation with someone from Queens College bordered on insane. I don't know if it's "red flag" worthy, but there seems to be some internal strife over what they're looking for. In any case, I will not be applying there.
I agree. They are the only ones I crossed off my list after the session. It was surreal. If I was sure this blog couldn't track IP addresses, I would say more.
CUNY-Queens - I don't know the dept at all, but keep in mind that every department has at least one crazy person. Doesn't necessarily mean that the job is not good.
I also interviewed at Queens but did not get a weird vibe. I did get that it is a typical poorly funded public school. Lots of teaching, not a lot of resources, etc.
Also keep in mind that CUNY-Queens is an enormous department with close to 70 FT & PT faculty. The personality of one of those people should not dissuade you from applying. If you get an interview and are still weirded-out during your visit, then cross them off your list!
I love it! Every department has their resident nutso professor! I know we have ours, and job candidates would be mistaken to think she/he represents the department in general.
12:20 Depends I guess. I wouldn't rule out applying for such a job, but if I got to the interview stage, I would definitely keep my eyes open for conditions.
Also, things like that can change quickly. When I got to my dept, the chair was great, and now (4 years later), the people I like are leaving and nutso prof is going to be chair.
And just FYI, folks, it's not appropriate to sprinkle your speech with F-bombs during interviews, even if they are cursory ASA interviews. This actually happened to us (we're hiring) this year. Insane! I'm choosing to go with...this person was just...really nervous? I dunno.
Re "nutso" faculty. I agree that every department has at least 1 nut job. We have ours. However, if the nut job is chair, I would seriously question the university's decision to appoint that person as chair and run for the hills. A responsible Dean will know who the sane people are and make them chair (although there's an argument to be made that you have to be insane to become a department chair).
As Chair of the Queens Department, who does not consider himself a "nutso", I am disheartened that one of my colleagues (or perhaps it was me) gave off a weird vibe. We have 26 full-time lines going on 28, and we actually got a new line right before the meeting. Perhaps, the perception of "internal strife" is due to the fact that we now expect to have two jobs with different search criteria. The job below is now on the ASA website and is fully approved. The other job in demography is in the process of being formally approved, but was listed with the ASA employment service. We hope lots of qualified candidates will apply. If you are invited for an interview, we will be happy to share our recent program review that found neither "internal strife" nor "a weird vibe."
Queens College, City University of New York. The Department of Sociology seeks to hire a tenure-track Assistant Professor beginning Fall 2008. Candidates must show promise of excellence in research, including, a well-defined research program and some scholarly publications, as well as excellence in and commitment to teaching. Candidates must have a Ph.D. in hand at time of appointment. The department will consider highly qualified candidates in a wide variety of specialties, especially candidates focusing on race and ethnic difference and inequality, family, sexuality, health, media, or deviance. Applicants should send (1) curriculum vitae, (2) samples of scholarly writing, (3) statement outlining research and teaching interests, and (4) three current confidential letters of reference to Andrew A. Beveridge, Chair, Search Committee, Department of Sociology, Queens College, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY 11367-1597. We especially welcome electronic application, including the reference letters. In addition to offering a BA degree in sociology to several hundred majors, the department (with over 25 full-time and numerous part-time faculty members) offers an MA with a concentration in social research. Appointment to the Doctoral Faculty at the Graduate Center of CUNY is open to professors at all ranks, upon review of publication record. Queens College, located in Flushing, New York has a diverse student body of 18,000 students, and is one of the Senior Colleges in the CUNY system. More information is available at www.qc.cuny.edu. The closing date is October 15th, and we welcome applications submitted electronically to andrew.beveridge@qc.cuny.edu.
This is the other job at Queens. It is pending final approval.
Queens College, City University of New York. The Department of Sociology seeks to hire a tenure-track Assistant or early Associate Professor beginning Fall 2008, as part of CUNY’s demography cluster initiative. Candidates must show promise of excellence in research, including, a well-defined research program and some scholarly publications, as well as excellence in and commitment to teaching. Candidates must have a Ph.D. in hand at time of appointment. The department will consider highly qualified candidates in all areas of social demography. Applicants should send (1) curriculum vitae, (2) samples of scholarly writing, (3) statement outlining research and teaching interests, and (4) three current confidential letters of reference to Joanne Miller, Chair, Demography Search Committee, Department of Sociology, Queens College, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY 11367-1597. We especially welcome applications in electronic form, including letters of reference. The successful applicant will be associated with the developing CUNY Institute for Demography Research. In addition to offering a BA degree in sociology to several hundred majors, the department (with over 25 full-time and numerous part-time faculty members) offers an MA with a concentration in social research. Appointment to the Doctoral Faculty at the Graduate Center of CUNY is open to professors at all ranks, upon review of publication record. Queens College, located in Flushing, New York has a diverse student body of 18,000 students, and is one of the Senior Colleges in the CUNY system. More information is available at www.qc.cuny.edu. Pending final institutional approval.
autoadmit... let's hope this blog doesn't go that far.
I'm fairly confident that it would be hard to track down the identity of any posters. Although, if someone posted something truly offensive, an administrator could probably track down an ip address.
My main concern is that the job search process is stacked against candidates in terms of access to information. Search committees operate in secret, with their own time-lines and agendas. As candidates, our bargaining power increases with more shared information. However, if search committees know what we know, the benefit is lost.
But, that doesn't mean I'll stop checking out the rumor mill. I'm starved for information. And, I welcome dept chairs posting in their own defense. I think the allegations were legitimate, but I also think that a department who is willing to engage its critics shows that it takes recruiting, and its image, seriously - a good thing.
That being said. If posts here turn sour and this place turns into AutoAdmit2, I'll look elsewhere for info.
I would like to state for the record that I do not track ip addresses on this website and will do my best to ensure the anonymity of all those who post.
I, however, cannot guarantee that someone with computer hacking skills will not be able to somehow get that information if they so wanted.
I think it's fabulous that a chair would post in response to impressions of his department, identify himself and provide further info. I get that it's probably in the interest of searching departments to do things like this, but they rarely do. Kudos to Andrew, and I second the welcome!
I also want to thank Andrew for taking the time to post here and offer an alternative view of his department. I, for one, am going to apply for one of the positions which I was thinking about crossing off my list before.
This is not to discredit those who posted about the "bad vibe" - I appreciate everyone's input! But I am very impressed that a department chair would take the time to address the question.
At the end of the day, most of us here are graduate students trying to find a job that will let us pursue some teaching or research work that we really care a lot about. It is a really stressful and sometime scary process, and I really appreciate this blog being here!
Finally, as the moderator of the "other blog" which just lists positions and details about their status, I also do not track visitor information in any way.
just a list of all posted jobs and the info and status. not a discussion board. i'm about a week behind right now due to having to actually apply for some of these jobs myself!
"But I am very impressed that a department chair would take the time to address the question."
I'm less impressed than I am further creeped out. A more comforting response would be no response. Are search committees now out trolling the rumor mills?
I wanted to apply to one of the schools with an early deadline but my package will not be there until a few days past the deadline. Does it mean that it won't get reviewed?
I have the same problem. I will be able to send my dossier to UC-Riverside tomorrow morning. Their deadline was September 4. I hope they still look at it.
This isn't a firm deadline. The ad stated that they will BEGIN reviewing applications on that date. Surely, there will be applications coming in after that date.
Also, the ad states that they will continue reviewing applications until position filled. Doubtful that a position will be filled so soon after 09/04.
I think if you get it there within 2-3 days of the deadline, you are OK. We are choosing our short list about 10 days after the deadline. I'd definitely overnight it, or at least 2-day it, though. You never know which dept. administrator will be a hardass.
Should I/we read anything into the early vs. late deadlines? For instance, is it usually the case that the "less prestigious" institutions will have a really early deadline? It seems awfully strange that some institutions have application deadlines in August, while the bulk of the institutions have September, October, or November deadlines.
Can't read anything much into deadlines. Someone with an August deadline may end up having other searches to do this year and is trying to knock out one early. Or they really want to have leverage to hire their best person. Early searches may imply that the dept had a bead on the line last spring, because it takes time to get a tenure-track position approved through all institutional channels. But later deadlines do not imply that the dept is flaky or doesn't have it together; sometimes people quit, die, or go on leave mid-year, resulting in a rushed spring search.
Thought I'd post the following link (from UC, Berkeley) for those who are uncertain about how to construct a cover letter. The "Berkeley Factor" section is a bit offensive (though maybe true): http://career.berkeley.edu/PhDs/PhDcover.stm
1:26 - I don't see what's creeping you out. If I were a search chair, this would definitely be a place to get a finger on the pulse of the market...remember they're selling themselves too. What's wrong with "trolling" the rumor mill?
"1:26 - I don't see what's creeping you out. If I were a search chair, this would definitely be a place to get a finger on the pulse of the market...remember they're selling themselves too. What's wrong with "trolling" the rumor mill?"
It is just creepy, that's all. A number of folks immediately intervened in the discussion of a certain NYC school, pointing out that EVERY department has its loony (and many have more than one). Case closed. End of story. But no, "chair" responds. Strange. I’m just sayin…
On the issue of faculty/departments trolling a grad student rumor mill, yep, that strikes me as a might creepy too. It is a buyer’s market. The idea that departments could retrieve any useful information for their searches here is laughable.
I don't see what the problem is. First of all, this blog is not off limits to department chairs. It is a PUBLIC blog, which means anyone in the world can access it and comment on any of the posts. I think it would be impossible to limit this blog only to those who are job hunting in sociology.
Second, the fact that the chair outed himself by disclosing his real name suggests that he is not trolling at all.
Third, I have no doubt that some department chairs have gotten wind of this blog--likely through word of mouth from a colleague or a grad student. I don't think it is unreasonable for any chair or search committee member to read the blog and/or address potential misconceptions of their institution. How is that creepy? It's not even remotely strange at all..at least not to me.
next year when i'm a prof somewhere, i will come back and read the job blog. its interesting. and if you were a chair and several people had said your department seemed strange, wouldn't you want to defend your department?
i also think it is good for "them" to remember how stressful this experience is for us on the market.
Well, not yet! Soon, people will (or should) post when the schools start calling. I guess you could just check the wiki for that, but the discussion that will ensue here is entertaining.
do you use departmental letterhead for your cover letters?
I do - I'm ABD - and it's assumed that we ABDs on the market use departmental letterhead.
However, I was just reading some academic wiki -- somewhere here: http://wikihost.org/wikis/academe/wiki/academic_job-seeking_faq - and some advice was given to NOT use dept letterhead. The person's main reasoning was that dept' letterhead was for correspondence related to that dept -
what are your thoughts about this? Nearly all of my applications are out now - if using letterhead is a faux pas, then I am screwed.
I also read that on the wiki but every single cover letter I've ever seen come out of my department used the department letter head and my advisors saw copies of my cover letter with the letter head and never said anything.
I've read advice saying that, if you already have an tt position, it's odd to use your current employer's letterhead when applying for another job. The strangeness comes from the idea that department letterhead should be used for correspondence benefiting the department... and hopefully your departure wouldn't qualify. For an ABD candidate, though, the department will be better off if you find a job. In that case, I don't see a problem.
MID-CAREER QUESTION. I'm a tenured assoc prof who is eyeing the market this year. I've never put myself out there since receiving tenure. I notice that many job ads at the associate level still ask for letters to be sent with the application. I'm a bit concerned about this because of how I might be perceived by colleagues/administrators (I hold leadership positions), particularly if I don't even make a short list or interview. Frankly, I'm reluctant to apply to jobs because I'm fearful of asking some of my colleagues for letters.
Do you think that it would be appropriate to apply and in my letter to stipulate that I will send letters only if I make it through the initial review (or a more aptly worded substitute)?
I didn't use letterhead for my cover letters. I'm at a top 5, and I did think about it. But, to be honest, I was also concerned about length, and letterhead forces me to use a large top margin, increasing my page numbers. So I didn't use it. But, either way, I don't think it really matters. You're fine.
My impression for associate (and advanced assistant) professor positions has been that letters of reference should come from outside your department and speak more to your scholarly merits and contributions to the field at large. You might have one letter from within your department that speaks to your teaching skills and collegiality. Your letters should probably be closer to the external letters for a tenure review (since the school is essentially conducting a mini-tenure review just by considering your application at the associate level).
Thanks for posting this! I've found that some of the pages on Fabio Rojas' website (http://mypage.iu.edu/~frojas/teaching.html) are helpful, and the University of Michigan has posted short transcripts of some interesting panels about the job market too (http://careercenter.umich.edu/students/gradservices/academic/jtalktran3.htm).
Here is a question about interviews (on the phone on on campus). How should we address professors? Should we call them Dr. SoandSo, Professor SoandSo, or just first names? I feel like we should be striving to gain a balance between being respectful and being viewed as a professor (not a student). In observing interactions between Professors, I have notice that they use first names, even when they are not that familiar with each other. However, it seems a bit unnatural to me after all of these years of using Dr. and Prof.....
i have never heard a grad student in my department address a professor as "doctor" or "professor". maybe in written communication, but never in person.
Interesting question. While I've never used Dr. or Professor to refer to folks in my own department, I generally use how people introduce themselves as a model for how I should refer to them during interviews. If someone is introduced (either by self or others) as Dr. So and So, that's what I call them. If they are introduced as John or Jane, then that's what I call them.
I'll echo the previous post. My department tends to use first names. If someone introduces themselves as "Prof SoandSo" call them that. By the same token, I'd be a bit put off by someone that reinforced the power dynamics by having me call the faculty Prof or Dr. (Unless there's just that one prof that doesn't like to be called Billy Bob.)
What do we do when we have 4 really strong letters of recommendation but they only ask for three, should we go ahead and have all four sent or should we cut one?
I sent four out when they asked for three b/c I had two strong references from my diss advisor and my postdoc advisor plus one that spoke to my teaching from the dept chair at the school where I'd held a visiting position. My postdoc advisor really didn't think the dept chair at the VAP school was a big enough name and wanted me to have another "big name" letter, but I'd already asked her (the dept chair) and couldn't think of a politic way to un-ask her. He seemed to think it was no big deal to have four even when they only asked for three.
Here's how they can hurt you - I found out when I did that...they may choose the first three that come in and ignore the last. If the last is your advisor, or the strongest one, you made a bad move. Some departments just won't look at them all. The administrative person takes them out of the file.
After sending in an application, I've gotten a couple emails requesting further information. These are run-of-the-mill for all applicants, e.g. about my commitment to a school's mission statement. Does anyone have a sense of how formal or informal my reply should be? Can I simply email back a more casual note? Or should I put my response in a letter and attach it to the email reply? And are they looking for lengthy statements, or are they just checking to see if I'm on board with their orientation?
If they want to know how you fit into their orientation, then this is obviously important to them. That means you should make it important to you if you do indeed hold similar views as they. I'd make something more formal; of course, this doesn't necessarily mean lengthy.
When I've been asked for statements in addition, I usually type them in Word and attach them to the email. It will be easier for them to print out and it makes it feel more formal.
Here's hoping for some pratical advice. In all seriousness, I am a massive sweater. There's very little I can do to control it, if I move I sweat. If I talk for long periods of time(i.e. teaching) I sweat.
Sweating is often taken as a sign of nervousness, and when I check people out and they seem to be paying too much attention to my sweating, it makes me sweat all the more.
I'm worried how I'll look giving a job talk with sweat pouring out. I generally bring sometype of hankerchief to wipe the sweat but if I'm talking for 45 minutes I must do that 20-30 times. Anybody have any suggestions for something that I can do? Special sweat gland surgery, pills, drugs, lotions, etc? Help!
A couple ideas: First, it is rumored to help if you change your deoderant/anti-persperant, based on the idea that you can somehow become immune to your standard underarm protection.
Second, bring along a second under-shirt that you keep in your bag until shortly before the job talk. Change about 10 minutes beforehand - this will lower your body temp and give you a cooler and drier starting point.
Third, sweat is our bodies trying to cool us off. So, make sure you have cold bottles of water available to drink throughout your talk - it's socially-acceptable to sip water (plus, it gives you thinking and deep-breath time). Also, if you use PowerPoint, stay out of the light of the projector, and perhaps even ask if the lights can be dimmed for better viewing of the presentation.
I've never used any lotions/pills/etc. Anyone else have other thoughts?
I too have a sweat issue. I think surgery is too drastic for me. Strong anti-perspirant can help like Mitchum. However, the best is to not think about it too much and to relax as much as you can. keep paper towels in your pockets as well and use them discretely. For more info, here's a site that gives some other options: http://www.sweathelp.org/ Also, try to do a practice job talk on campus to make you as relaxed as possible. Good luck and I'm sure you'll do great!
I have a good friend (and now employed!) colleague who is a Massive Sweater. Hu had this problem -- however, hu never seemed to be bothered by it. Hu just used a handkerchief (or two) whenever needed. I think that because hu didn't seem to take notice, no one else did either. Or if they did, they stopped noticing after a few minutes.
the ranking does not matter so much as most departments act as if they are the top when it comes to hiring. I really find it unbearable the ones who not only refuse to give jobs to their own graduates but also exclude your application in the first place if your are not from the top five schools. It is ironic that despite their effort they can only find a place in the top twenty if not thirty. anyways life is short and there are thousands of other things that we sociologists can do. cheer up people!
Thanks for all the replies so far. I've gone the extra undershirt route. This is aprt of the reason that it's good to make sure they schedule some time before your job talk where you can prepare and be alone.
Changing the deodorant wouldn't help me too much, my issue is sweating profusely from my forehead. Keeping the suitjacket on generally keeps those signs from showing.
I'd actually heard from a gym aficionado that I know that drinking cold water might cause your body to heat up more than if you drink room temperature water, because it has to work harder to bring the cold water to the body temperature. But mentally maybe the cold water might help.
I'm just hoping that the frequency of how often I wipe my brow will just become so routine that people will be lulled into not noticing it. It's just one of those things that you wonder if it makes an impression in people's minds, but I think as long as I can at least control not thinking about it, which might then cause me to make a mistake while giving my talk, I should be okay.
Good luck to you all, especially the profuse sweaters!
I have one more suggestion for sweating. You may want to go to your family physician and see if he/she will prescribe Drysol. It is a prescription anti-perspirant that you put on in the evenings once or twice a week. It worked miracles for me. In fact, after using it for a little while my problem went away entirely.
the prescription you mention is now available OTC. i bought it at my local drug store before my ASA interviews.
the stuff works by actually shrinking your pores so you cannot sweat. this is not dangerous is you use it only in the places where you have localized sweating issues. it lasts about 72 hours.
on the other hand, i have been at a job talk where the candidate sweat so much it was literally dripping off his/her chin. and afterwards when we were discussing the job candidates, our chair reminded us not to forget that everyone gets nervous and it shouldn't affect anyone. we hired that person, in fact. so trust me, if you can publish and teach it doesn't matter whether your sweat is green. however, if you are doing a teaching demo you will want to make sure you don't have a nervous demeanor no matter how much you sweat.
Having been on search committees at 2 different top 10 depts, I would suggest sending any good stuff you have --more letters, more papers -- no one on the search knows what the ad says. Good stuff will not be held against you just because there is more of it.
On the other hand, only send good stuff. One weaker paper can dilute an otherwise good profile.
There was a discussion a little while ago about proper attire for campus interviews. I'm wondering if you get called in for a visiting professor position or a lecturer position how should you dress? I would think these interviews would be less formal and you mgiht be fine with sweater and slacks. Has anyone gone to one of those interviews?
Dress as if you were going for a formal interview, regardless of whether the position is tenure-track, visiting, or adjunct. One's attire does not become less casual with a decrease in the position's rank.
I have a question about the job talk. I've noticed that some people include long lists of references throughout their literature review slides, while others don't have a single reference listed on their slides. Which is better? Or what are the advantages/disadvantages for either approach?
i was told not to cite during a job talk except to identify a couple of the most relevant previous works or to describe some previous research you are challenging. i cite three "big names" that provide the theoretical framework for my dissertation generally. when i outline previous findings, i note that citations are available upon request if anyone is interested in the details of these previous works. then i have a job talk reference list i can give people with references listed by general topic area.
if there is someone at the school where you are interviewing who is relevant, its nice to mention their work as an aside. not on a slide, but say something like, "and of course joe smith here at Super U has looked at how X and Y relate which is also important to bear in mind."
but don't make it gratuitous or overly general. mention them only if you would have cited them somewhere in the diss anyway.
that sounds like good advice to me. the point of the talk is to showcase your research, so why overburden the audience with tons of citations? a good deal of the audience may already know the general framework anyhow. also, think of it this way...if they have questions about the literature, those will be easy questions to address at the end. be somewhat strategic with your time. people will feel obligated to ask questions. if that part of the talk worries you, then go a tad light on the literature or methods sections during the talk, as those areas yield the easiest questions to answer.
I was told by my advisor to "situate my arguments in the literature" by citing for major points (e.g. in four or five places). She said that this demonstrates that you have a good knowledge of theory. I am listing a few of the biggest names on the slide, but rarely mentioning names in my actual talk (that way I have cited, but not wasted my talk time).
What does your comment mean? This sounds like a legitimate question from someone who might be speaking english as a second (or third, or fourth) language, but why say they are "not meant to be" for this blog? Isn't anyone searching for a Soc. position welcome here?
12:06, I think you misunderstood. The person who posted that question meant to post it in a different thread, which s/he did after realizing s/he didnt mean to post it in this one. Relax.
I'm curious about the U of Minnesota post on the Wiki. I got an email from them today encouraging me to send addl mats (particularly writing samples) by 10/22. I read it as a form letter, however, not as anything more. Is this what folks are referring to? And which is the correct interpretation?
Minnesota: This is probably the wrong thread to post for job info. But anyway, I too got the email and am inclined to lean more toward the form letter side.
But I do think it is a sign of interest. They explicitly asked for one sample and would not allow for attaching more, because they didn't want to wade through samples of people they weren't interested in. They say in the email they are reviewing files now, so I think it's safe to say they are asking for more info from people who look promising (though I didn't post on the wiki either).
Keep in mind that schools have an interest in keeping their cards close to their chest. I interpreted this as trying to appear like a form letter rather than disclose how far long they are; but nontheless, they indicate in my eyes that they are moving along.
There's been lots of discussion here, and in the other threads, about what to wear for the interviews/job talk - and a suit seems to be the concensus. But, I'm wondering what people are wearing for the arriving & departing days of the visit. Is something more casual appropriate, or is a suit necessary for each day of the visit, even if the only interaction is a drive to/from the airport?
I have a travel day that is really only travel - being picked up at the airport by SC member and dropped at the hotel. I'm wearing business casual that day. (khakis or skirt, not jeans)
Then I have two days of interview - am wearing suits for that.
I'm playing on "both teams" this year: I'm on the market and my department (where I'm tenure-track) is hiring again.
Here are some tips for on-campus interviewing (beyond the obvious things like be on time and prepared for your job talk):
1) Act interested and engaged (let folks know you want to be there).
2) Know your specialty (and related ones). If you include a concept or variable (even as a control) in your analysis, but don't highlight it in your job talk, make sure you can talk intelligently about at least one major controversy in that area. You're not looking for the definite argument, just reassure folks that you can think on your feet and are thoughtful and reasoned even in areas you may not be expert on. (And, heavens, it's OK to not be expert on everything, so don't pretend or you may find yourself in some ugly minefield.)
3) Don't excessively name drop. You might be dropping the name of some undeclared nemesis.
4) Don't stoke internal squabbles. The department that's interviewing you may have some factions. Sit on the fence and let all sides see in you a potential ally. But, you aren't a blank slate, so DO speak you mind.
5) It's good to know who's who and what's what ahead of time. But don't commit all the information on the department's web site or faculty home pages to memory. Nothing spells "stalker" like a recitation of a three-year-old blog/web entry.
6) Don't ask junior faculty if they are on the market. (Just assume it.) If you "need" to know, ask them (and everyone else for that matter) where they see themselves in five or so years. As in, where do you see your research/teaching in 5 yrs?
7) In terms of dress and appearance, be clean, tidy and, above all, comfortable. If that means breaking in a new pair of shoes ahead of time or dress rehearsals (including tie, make-up, whatever) give yourself the time to practice. Don't glam it up. If you wear a suit or have a jacket, you don't need to walk off the plane wearing it. (It'll just get rumpled anyway.)
8) Don't put up with inappropriate questions. No one should ask you about your sexuality, your marital or parental status, or religiosity. You may choose to disclose what you like (so, if you're a parent, you may ask about schools, e.g.), but those questions (and related probes) cannot be initiated by anyone interviewing you. If it happens (and yes, it will), you should politely evade answering and then discretely let the dept or SC chair know about it. To ignore it hurts the process for everyone.
thanks for that list, 1:56. one of the things you mention (practice putting on the make-up before the interview) caught my attention. i am a female who rarely wears make-up. is it *expected* that we wear make-up to the interview? (obviously, not excessively, but is the basic stuff expected?)
3:33, I am at a top ten school and I have seen plenty of female job candidates not wear make up on their interviews. Many of the female faculty also wear no make up, so I doubt this will be an issue that will cost you a job.
I've never worn makeup (or a skirt for that matter) during a job interview/job talk and I've been offered the majority of jobs I've interviewed for (for which I've interviewed...). So I wouldn't worry about it. Plus, if you're not a makeup wearing kind of gal (or you are a makeup wearing kind of guy!) would you really want to be in department that doesn't have a somewhat supportive culture? As hard as it can be to remember, in addition to the fact that the dept is choosing a candidate, you are choosing a department.
I posted the 1:56 list. Regarding make-up: I didn't mean to imply that it was required. It isn't (and certainly shouldn't be). Personally, I don't use make-up regularly, but I think I might have worn a very little bit when I interviewed. If it's something you usually do or never do, then as 11:39 says you should present yourself as you usually do. If it's something you do only occasionally and you want to do it, then my suggestion is to practice it ahead of time, so that you're comfortable and not distracted by the stuff.
There are departments out there that might have a more formal "business" attire as the dress code norm. If you're venturing outside of straight academic Sociology Depts, you're more likely to find them.
I think the most important thing is to just be yourself! If a department does/does not like you because you wear make-up or you do not, then you do not want to take a job there anyway. I think this discussion is interesting because I totally wear make-up and dress in trendy clothes. A few of my colleagues remarked about my brazenness in the first year or two of grad school and I said that I like to wear makeup, jewelry, get my hair done and don the latest styles and that I do not judge those do not do the same. One stodgy old professor even casually remarked that women who wear makeup are not taken as seriously, which has only made me work harder at publishing and proving him wrong. So we need to remember not to change who we are because I am sure SC's can see right through that.
I have a campus interview coming up and I'm wondering what the grad student component will be like. At my university, two grad students are on the search committee, grad students have a meeting with the candidate, are expected to attend the job talk, and at minimum have a veto for choosing the candidate. What's it like where you're at?
At my school there are no students on the search committee. There is usually a meeting set up for the candidate to meet with the grad students, but the number of students that attend vary widely (depending either on the time of semester or on what area the candidate is in). I have a campus interview and they don't have me meeting with students at all (so I requested it).
My school has grad students on the search committee.
But I'm applying to places that don't have a grad program, and at least one of them has undergraduates on the search committee - the SC said they're full voting members. I was thrilled to learn that there are schools like that out there. :)
I heard at SLAC, without graduate students, undergrads may be on the committee, though I wonder how much there opinion (and grad students for that matter) really count in the final tally.
at my slac undergrads are not on the sc. nearly everyone who comes into contact with the candidate does complete an evaluation form. students in the class with the teaching demonstration, students who take the candidate for lunch or coffee, everyone. typically these evals provide feedback to confirm what faculty already suspect. however, they can make a BIG difference if two candidates are relatively equal in potential. The students will usually have a clear favorite in who they can see as a future professor here (in some ways they have a better gauge since they've had profs from across campus).
We do have a grad student on our search committees and this student recruits other students to come to the job talk, come to coffee and/or lunch with the candidate, and later, to write up an evaluation. My sense is that these evaluations only matter if two candidates are close.
I'll agree with the above posts that student feedback is probably considered as a way to break a tie. There have been debates over whether students should be on the SC, and one prof pointed out that the faculty have a greater interest in picking someone good because they have to put up with that person (which includes any student complaints) for the next several years. I see meeting with students as a great opportunity to learn more about the campus community, department environment, etc.
and if you are subtle, meetings with students can be a good way to find out what the political terrain of the dept looks like. ;-) i found this out by accident during a past visit. students tell give out loads of information without all the impression management that you see with faculty.
Had an interesting experience during a recent on-campus interview. I met with one of the new assistant prof's and he immediately started asking me if I knew any of the gossip surrounding a rift between two senior people in my department! I was shocked to say the least and rattled off something like, 'Oh all faculty have their occasional squabbles.' Not sure if he was trying to rattle me or determine if I'm a gossip or what. Strange.
absolutely ask about department climate when meeting with grad students! they are the ones to know, and they have no reason not to tell you how they see it. the meeting with grad students is a great time to find out about the culture of the town too.
i also suggest being prepared to answer questions from students as well. they will probably want to know your approach to advising, what classes you would like to teach at the graduate level, and any collaborative opportunities you would bring.
Thanks so much for the responses to my question about graduate students' role in the selection process. It's really useful to realize that graduate student have varying degrees of influence. I suspect that level of influence on the job candidate says a lot about what the department's culture is like regarding relationships between faculty and grad students. And, thanks for the specific tip: I'm certainly going to ask to schedule a meeting if it's not on my original schedule! On a related topic, for those who have interview experience, what's the hardest question/type of question you've encountered?
i think the worse ones are those that do not take seriously your approach. for example, quants who poo poo your work because you use qual methods. those discussions about "what constitutes knowledge" shouldn't happen during these settings IMHO.
RE: Phone interviews. So far my experience has been generally positive, although one was merely a guise for "request more material". I tried a joke with my last one, and it went well. It's so hard to get any read on what the committee is thinking though! Did I just a bomb a question? Are they making faces without my knowledge? It's the waiting afterwards that kills me.
i've noticed a trend of phone interviews where *everyone* is in a different room. Instead of them all sitting around a conference silently winking to one another, they are all on their own separate phone lines.
I actually liked it, because it put everyone on a level playing field (since no one could see anyone else's gestures).
the phone interviews i've done recently all involved people crammed into one office. i found it awkward and difficult to hear them. sounded like they were in a cave. i keep telling myself at least it was equally awkward for them too. Having 5 or 6 people all speaking into a speaker phone and crammed into a small office had to be funny for them.
there are limits with the site. if a town is less than 10,000 people or so, they may not have all of the information (including glbt index). enter you city, hit enter, and scroll down the page you get. on the righthand side of the page you find local guides. for most cities, you'll find the glbt, disability, housing, political, etc. guides.
don't forget the qual people who argue that anything done with statistics is the researcher imposing their own interpretation on other people's behavior.
in my experience, some researchers from both qual and quant do not respect other methods. and they're all short-sighted and wrong.
I'm at a top-50 R1, and each time an SC is formed, a grad student is included here. I've done this a few times now - glad I did, because it gave some great insights into the process. As far as I could tell, my evaluations carried similar weight to evaluations of faculty, at least during the process of selecting who to invite for an interview.
I have a campus interview. After the official interview is over, I have a couple hours before my flight, during which I was hoping to puruse the city on my own. I would then foot the bill for the taxi to the airport. Is there a polite way to ask for that, or is that a no-no?
1:06 - That's totally okay, and in fact, shows that you're seriously interested in the position. Certainly volunteer to foot the bill for the taxi, but chances are, they'll cover it.
I don't think there's any need to tell them that, and I don't think you'd help your candidacy. They'll assume that you are looking at jobs other than theirs. I'd definitely be interested in others' opinions on this.
Don't they already assume you're looking at jobs other than yours? Very few job market candidates put all their eggs in one basket. SCs know that already.
You say, "I've applied to a range of different places (or exclusively to other teaching colleges or research universities or whatever fits your image). I've had a few expressions of interest but I don't have any concrete offers at this time."
in my experience, they are more likely to ask if you have any other interviews. do expect them to also ask whether or not you have a partner/spouse, prefaced by "this isn't legal of me to ask, but...".
Rule #1: Do not offer up any unnecessary information! Why would they care if you are applying for postdocs? You do not owe them any explanations of your plans.
I concur that they may ask where else you are interviewing. I think it is then acceptable to tell them where (and probably in your benefit). If you don't have any others, the above poster is correct. "Expressions of interest but no other fly-outs yet."
They will probably ask you to keep them posted on your other interview invites, so they know at which point they need to pressure the admin to make a decision. Assuming they want you.
All of this is obviously my own opinion! Take with a grain of salt.
Regarding postdocs-- If there's a postdoc you really want and think you're in the mix for it, it may not hurt to let the SC know that. At some places, they can put you on the faculty, but let you go off and do the postdoc before you actually have to do faculty duties (and before they'll pay you). YMMV, you should talk to your adviser about specifics.
Miraculously, I'm beginning to get some interviews (3) and they all want to know where else I'm interviewing. Do I want to tell them? Am I implicitly being negatively evaluated in light of the other places I don't have jobs? Or positively evaluated for the few places I do?
It really depends. I think you should definitely tell them where you are interviewing because you come across as cagey if you don't. In our department, if you have other interviews (anywhere) it puts pressure on us to get you an offer (assuming you're our choice) and then put pressure on you to accept. If you are interviewing at higher-ranked places, it could either make us feel like we won't be able to get you OR that we HAVE to get you (usually the latter). If you are interviewing at lower-ranked places, we relax a bit but you are still seen as desirable (I bet we could get him/her). So...no real help, I know, just our perspective.
i wouldn't tip my cards until someone gives you an offer. then it's time to let all the places you are really interested in know that you now have to make a decision...you would like their position, but you must seriously consider the offer you have. for that reason, you'd like to know their timeline and if you are still in the running for their position. that can really speed up the process.
I got an interview at the one school I applied to (this is my "soft year" on the market, as some have described it). If they ask, should I tell them I didn't apply anywhere else? Should I mention that I'm applying to postdocs also? I'd appreciate any advice.
I got a call today for a fly-out late next week! I had no idea I was on their short-list as there was no phone interview. Just wondering if it is common not to have a phone interview, for which I have been diligently preparing for of course. thanks.
I think it is very common for schools to want to know if you have other interviews. When I was applying to grad schools, everyone wanted to know where else I had applied and what kind of funding those other places were offering. I think it is fine to tell SCs about other places, but it is also fine to say that some other departments have short-listed you but you would rather not discuss specifics until you receive more information from those places.
As for post-docs...
I have accepted a post-doc for next year although some departments where I applied have not yet started contacted people. My adviser said that it is very possible to negotiate a delayed start date if you want to accept an offer and also take the post-doc. You would be asking to take your first year on unpaid leave, and whether or not it counts as a tenure year is negotiable too.
Point being...if they want you, they WILL negotiate.
8:12PM, this is interesting. My advisor told me that it is fine to move forward with postdoc competitions and the job search process simultaneously, but she said that it is very bad form to leave yourself in the applicant pool for any job after you have officially signed a contract for a postdoc. (I thought it might be okay, and kind of got jumped on for that.) Her specific advice is, if you're already shortlisted for the job, let them know the score and see what happens, but otherwise withdraw your name from the pool.
I am not picking a fight. I do not know which is the correct advice. I am just letting you know that there is conflicting advice out there. (If it helps, in terms of experience or departmental culture, my advisor has been on the faculty for 20 years at a top 10.) You might want to see what other faculty think -- I certainly intend to now!
Fred--you're right--IF you've signed a contract. Why are you guys signing contracts for postdocs this early in the season, anyway?
I think usually when this comes into negotiations is when you have an OFFER of a postdoc and you really want to do it. Then, the departments may be willing to deal.
I would say, never sign anything until you are sure what you want to do! You can always ask for more time--and will usually get it.
7:51 - That is not uncommon at all. This season I've scheduled two campus interviews with schools that didn't do phone interviews. The school that I currently teach at also proceeds directly to campus interviews (as did my grad dept).
Here is a question: If you are going for an interview in sociology, how much interest should you express in other schools where you might have overlap (say policy schools, or other things). Does showing interest in those things make the department think you are less interested in them (or that they won't get all of your time), or does it make you seem well rounded? Should you wait on all of this until after (if you were so lucky) you get an offer?
You could first ask a more generic question about how much the faculty works outside of the soc department, with the other schools/departments. If this is positive, mention your interest in the other programs. Perhaps name a person or two from there that you would want to work with, so that it shows you've done your homework.
One of my interviews is going to look at my cv and see if there are people from other parts of the university that work on similar stuff. They see it as a way to help me see myself working there, both within and without the department. Plus, inter-disciplinary stuff is pretty big on campuses right now.
I have an interview early next week at a school that has not posted the job-talks on their site. Hence, I have no idea of my competition. A part of me wants to know who I am up against, while a part of me does not. Is it strange to ask SC's who else is interviewing for the position? Do I even want to know?
I don't really want to know my competition. I'm anxious enough. I think it's ok to ask how many more weeks the department will be interviewing until the SC meets again to perhaps make a decision. The chair then may say how many other interviews happended/are coming up...
11:11 it is hard to imagine how knowing that information would be helpful. distracting? yes. but any attempt to try and make it helpful would likely not serve you well. i would certainly not recommend asking members of the department.
399 comments:
1 – 200 of 399 Newer› Newest»Can anyone describe what to expect during the very brief ASA job interviews? (location, questions you'll be asked, questions to ask, etc.)
Yes, I just received an invite for one of these "interviews." Advice from anyone who has been through this process would be appreciated.
Also
Is there any evidence that any of these "interviews" have led to a job?
i did it couple of years ago. meat market with bells to mark time. had a lovely chat with bryn mawr who seemed quite interested, but then i didn't even get a phone interview. so i don't know if these are of any use at all. unlike the anthro meetings in nov where they seem to carry a bit more weight.
I posted this reference last year and it sparked some debate and criticism. Thought I'd post it again since I find it useful when trying to understand hiring practices in sociology. For some, Burris' article may be good news, for others, it will be sure to spark strong emotion.
I find it useful because it reminds me that sociology is a presitge-based discipline (reflected, in part, in its dominant hiring practices) and has a relatively closed system of trading grad students among the "top five" departments. It seems that many sociologists still have a long way to go in developing their critical imaginations; many act like they are in the world but not "of the world" (to paraphrase Warren Susman). The article is a good piece of research in the sociology of knowledge/material context of knowledge production and could be read for that alone.
Burris shows that academic prestige has little to do with one's ability to have a positive impact on our discipline, yet much hiring remains prestige based.
The main point (for those who don't have time to read it): Aside from departments that already garner so-called social captial because of their reputations, less prestigious departments who hire based on academic prestige do not obtain the captial they seek nor do they get linked into the social networks they want.
Val Burris. 2004 "The Academic Caste System: Prestige Hierarchies in Ph.D. Exchange Networks." American Sociological Review. 69(2):239-264.
Regarding the topic of setting up interviews at ASA--
My experience with this is that it is not uncommon for students to arrange "interviews" with faculty at places they are interested in. In the past several candidates at my R1 have set up meetings with faculty working in their area. In some cases, it led to a flyout whereas in others, it did not. It is hard to tell whether it made a difference but it does help SCs put a face to the application and I can't see how it can hurt you.
I've sent out emails to faculty to arrange informal meetings during ASA. Some emailed me back enthusiastically others never responded.
I did this last year; I had a dept. chair tell me flat out that the job was essentially mine for the taking...and then I never heard from them again. and on the flip side, the place I ultimately got a job (which was much better than the first one) wasn't even interviewing (or at least not me).
the employment service is primarily (though not exclusively) a way for mid & lower tier schools to beef up their applicant pool. It's possible it will help you, and it certainly won't hurt you unless you have horrific social skills. At the very least, it will help you hone your 3-minute dissertation spiel.
My advice? sign up for it, but limit it to one day only. otherwise it can be too draining and suck up all your time at ASA's.
I absolutely agree with 5:41. I had meetings for three jobs through the employment service, and that was plenty. Mainly, it gave me a chance to practice talking about my dissertation, and about how I position myself within the discipline. It was also useful for getting a sense of how potential employers react to my work. However, I don't feel like I need to do it again this year.
What about independently contacting faculty at schools, particularly R1 schools that don't use the ASA employment services, to discuss potential positions? Is that useful? What are people's experiences with this?
Are there any thoughts on declining an interview through ASA's Employment Service? I've been invited by a school where I had not intended to apply, but I do not want to come across as rude, especially if I end up throwing my hat into that ring after all. Any advice?
Thanks,
Marmalade
Marmalade,
I don't have an answer for you. The same thing happened to me. I'm going to meet with them for appearances sake. my .02
Again, I would not randomly contact faculty at schools you are interested in. Have your advisor do it, if they know someone. I'm on the TT at an R1 doing a search and we would find this quite obnoxious. Now, networking at ASA with faculty who share your interests is different, and if that resulted in getting your name out there, great.
If it's just an ASA interview, that I don't think it is a huge commitment. Even if you have other interviews scheduled, it could still be useful practice.
On the other hand, I don't think there is going to be some negative reprecussions if you don't do the ASA interview. If you're really not interested in the job, there's no reason to go through with the full application process. if you do decide that it is a job you'd apply for, once they get your full dossier, I don't think they'll hold it against you that you didn't talk to them for 10-15 minutes at ASA.
Some thoughts about the ASA merry-go-round.... They can be very useful for everyone concerned. Candidates can get a sense of whether it's worthwhile to apply. An interviewer may look at your credentials and tell you you're not right, saving you the angst of actually applying. (Remember that the interviewer knows the inner workings of the faculty who will, months later, be assessing applications.) You may spend your 20-mins with someone who seems beaten down, has nothing positive to say about the dept/job/school, or who rubs you wrong. You've just saved yourself the angst of actually applying. In terms of good things, I know of a handful of people who interviewed at ASA, got short-listed or got phone interviews later, were invited to campus, and were offered tenure-track jobs. It's a little like a lottery ticket - but there's risk with everything, isn't there? You risk some time, energy, neurosis, and in exchange you may really help your case. The faculty interviewing DO take notes and do take note of how candidates behave, whether that's accepting an interview & not showing up, showing up late, or seeming uninterested. The other posters are right that it's good practice for job talks. Your whole point in working this blog is to get input on the thing you really want, right? (namely, a job) Why not view the ASA interviews as a means to an end, to get to the point of what you want, namely, a job? ASA can be good practice for the subsequent important deal - the campus visit. (Or maybe it's just me - I would have hated to go into something so important with NO practice.) You might get a feel for what kinds of crazy questions will get tossed at you on a 2-day job talk. And finally (whew) - if you're at a top 10-15 PhD program, your faculty should be in the loop and networking a little for you. You should not be querying profs at top tier schools. They should be asking their buddies about who's hot in which field - very much strong/weak ties social networking. But keep in mind that the majority of candidates will be hired at "mid & lower tier schools" (as one poster put it), at one of the thousands of schools with a Soc Dept (not at one of the tiny few elite schools in any category). That hiring process often starts at ASA...just try to see it for what it is and relax a bit while doing it.
9:02,
Thanks for your insight. I hope to see more of your comments on this blog.
As one who has been interviewing others at ASA, I can vouch for the utility of the process. Departments take notes on candidates, and a positive interview at ASA will indeed make its way back to the search committee meetings. Similarly, a poor showing can have a similar effect. Over the years, we have done on-campus interviews with several ASA interviewees and have hired a few as well.
10:39,
What do you look for when you interview candidates at ASA. Given that the interviews tend to be short and there is not too much time to go into depth about anything in particular, do schools generally use these interviews to assess personality/demeanor/personal style versus substantive things like research agenda, which presumably can be gained from reading the candidate's application package?
And how would you suggest a candidate goes about preparing for the interview?
Thank you!
11:22,
First, we receive many requests from candidates but far more than the available slots we have so we must be a bit selective in terms of who we invite. Thus, if you made it to my table at ASA, you've been somewhat pre-screened for fit (although it may not be perfect). Once at the interview, I look for things like (a) can this person intelligently and thoughtfully talk to me about their work? (b) is this person's work interesting? (c) are they excited about what they're doing? (d) are they interested in hearing about my university? (e) can I see this person in front of students at my university?
Please remember that these interviews are primarily about mutual advertising, so we don't expect to get to know each candidate well. Have a 2-minute, well articulated "talking point" on your scholarly interests and work. Other than that, I would advise you to ask questions of the departmental representatives (doing just a little bit of homework on the department you interview with in advance gets high marks in my book), be excited about your work (but make sure that it is made relevant to those outside your specialization), and lastly...SMILE.
Best of luck to you...
"10:39"
Good to see that folks on the hiring side visit this blog!
"10:39",
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. This is really helpful!
11:22
10:39,
One more question...
Would it be too presumptuous to ask about expectations/requirements for tenure at an ASA interview? I'd like to get a sense of how much (and where) they expect asst profs to publish, but I don't want to sound as if I assume I'll get the job.
-paranoid.
When we show up for interviews at the ASA, do we have to have our dossier ready- what do we give them exactly (CV, writing sample etc.)?
What kind of questions do they ask?
Paranoid,
I think asking about tenure requirements is fair game. This should give you a good sense of the priorities of the university. However, you may get ambiguous responses to this question because many universities/departments have do not have well-established criteria for P&T. If they give you a blank stare on the tenure/promotion question, you can also ask about how you'll be reviewed annually, how merit pay is allocated, etc.
8:09,
At minimum, I would have copies of your CV with you and ask if your interviewers would like a copy. I'm not sure I want to carry around your reprints and other stuff, but you may want to have a few copies of that in case anyone asks -- I never do.
In terms of what kinds of questions I ask, I generally ask the candidate to tell me a little about themselves (this is where you have your prepared schpiel) and typically have a conversation from there. If I don't get a clear sense of how the candidate's work relates to my position, I ask the candidate directly. I then leave at least 5 minutes for the candidate to ask questions.
Hope this helps.
10:39
I trust you'll take this with the respect that is intended, 10:39, becasue your comments are highly appreciated from us job-seekers: I'm surprised to see employers on a job-seeker's blog. What's the draw?
I peruse this site for two reasons. First, I might be tempted to put myself out there on the job market again this year and I am interested in what's going on out there. In one way or another, I've always got my eye out for other opportunities, as do many of my colleagues at mine and other universities. Secondly, from the hiring side, I want to find out all I can about candidates -- we're not just interviewing them, they're interviewing us as well.
10:39
Here's a question for anyone who has used the employment service in the past -- what do candidates wear to these micro-interviews? Do people tend to show up in "business casual" (i.e., conference-wear), or is it best to dress more formally for the interview?
I am doing a handful of interviews scattered over three days. I certainly don't have three suits.
Got it, 10:39! All are welcome here.
as for what to wear (to answer 6:25) I've been told you wear a suit. period. Perhaps others have heard/know differently? From those I personally know who have interviewed at ASA in the past few years everyone wore a suit. If you don't have three suits I'd suggest getting some different shirts to wear or something - I also have interviews over three different days and really don't feel like packing three suits (plus casual clothes to wear the rest of the time!) but I figure my basic black suit can double-up a day (or two) with the right shirt.
I set up a few interviews at ASA last year. I am a male, did not wear a suit, and felt entirely comfortable at the interviews. This is not to say this is the right etiquette - only that there really is no "right" etiquette. It's possible (though unlikely) that it might rub someone the wrong way if you're not in a suit, but it's also possible that you might impress someone by ignoring the pretense associated with this process by overdressing. You may have noticed that most academics are not wearing suits around, suggesting that they won't be impressed by others wearing suits around. Especially at the ASA interviews, which are extremely informal.
On my real interviews, where I did wear suits, I had several people make comments suggesting that it wasn't necessary and kind of laughing at the formality of the whole thing. My advice would be to wear whatever you think is appropriate for the setting - at the ASA interviews, a suit seems a bit too formal to me.
Any advice on what women should wear to ASA interviews?
I agree with 9:06. I remember people laughing at the groups of young suit-wearers, saying "oh, yes, the employment service." I think it's fine to dress professionally w/o a suit. (The type of thing I wear to teach for the first couple week of class.) For women, a skirt or slacks with a nice blouse is fine.
To anonymous on July 31st, as a woman on the market I would recommend business casual. I had a successful stint on ASA job/meat market last year which led to 2 fly-outs based specifically on these brief interviews and subsequent job offers. I took one of the jobs. I only wore slacks and nice button downs to all of my ASA job market interviews. I agree that at these meetings, sociologists just aren't that formal. You want to give the impression of taking this process seriously (i.e. dress slack and pressed shirt or blouse), but there is no need to pull out the 'fly' suit until you're on the interview. Best of luck in what I know is a pretty stressful situation.
What to wear: there are race/class/gender dimensions here. Women and people of color don't have as much leeway to go ultra casual. When I interview candidates I like to see that you're taking the process seriously because it implies you'll take your job seriously, should you be hired at my school. It's not necessary to wear a formal suit but it absolutely helps to look neat, pulled together, and competent. In terms of materials - I do not want your full dossier - I wouldn't have time to read teaching evals or a writing sample. Do bring copies of your CV, which may be helpful to interviewers who would not print a CV for every candidate. The poster going by "10:39" made good points about what interviewers are looking for: do you seem lively & engaged with your work? can you communicate in a way that will give me as sense of what you might be like in front of my students? how are you selling yourself - does it seem like your interests/skills will complement and extend the department I'm in? Dare I say - try to relax a little, remember that it's only 20 minutes, be charming but genuine, and be openminded.
post-ASA...what is the proper protocol for after the interview? i know we're supposed to send a thank-you letter, but do we tell them if we plan to apply? do we make it a short "thank you" or add details about why we are still interested in the job?
what about schools we met but are not interested in? do we tell them that, or just say thank you?
finally, what about any contacts made outside the Employment Service system? i interviewed with a couple schools who contacted me via email and arranged meetings off-site at ASA, and i also spoke with a couple schools informally through network connections. do i thank them as well?
Thank-yous to everyone; and for goodness sake, never tell a place that you are not interested. You can make that call if and when they ask you for an interview, if you are confident you will have lots of other options.
For those of you who attended the ASA interviews, any major "red flags" you can share for those of us who didn't make it to New York?
Thanks.
I hate to slander an entire dept. based on one chat. However, my conversation with someone from Queens College bordered on insane. I don't know if it's "red flag" worthy, but there seems to be some internal strife over what they're looking for. In any case, I will not be applying there.
CUNY-Queens?
I agree. They are the only ones I crossed off my list after the session. It was surreal. If I was sure this blog couldn't track IP addresses, I would say more.
Ramapo College (NJ) did group interviews, which I felt was very uncomfortable.
St. Anselm has an inside candidate with a current VAP - it's not a lock, but if they do hire him/her, they may use this search to fill that VAP slot.
CUNY-Queens - I don't know the dept at all, but keep in mind that every department has at least one crazy person. Doesn't necessarily mean that the job is not good.
I also interviewed at Queens but did not get a weird vibe. I did get that it is a typical poorly funded public school. Lots of teaching, not a lot of resources, etc.
Also keep in mind that CUNY-Queens is an enormous department with close to 70 FT & PT faculty. The personality of one of those people should not dissuade you from applying. If you get an interview and are still weirded-out during your visit, then cross them off your list!
These are helpful comments. It is helpful to informally compare notes with others. Thanks for sharing.
7:57 -
I love it! Every department has their resident nutso professor! I know we have ours, and job candidates would be mistaken to think she/he represents the department in general.
I aspire to someday be that nutso professor!
Yes, but what if they are the chair?
12:20 Depends I guess. I wouldn't rule out applying for such a job, but if I got to the interview stage, I would definitely keep my eyes open for conditions.
Also, things like that can change quickly. When I got to my dept, the chair was great, and now (4 years later), the people I like are leaving and nutso prof is going to be chair.
And just FYI, folks, it's not appropriate to sprinkle your speech with F-bombs during interviews, even if they are cursory ASA interviews. This actually happened to us (we're hiring) this year. Insane! I'm choosing to go with...this person was just...really nervous? I dunno.
Just a plug for old fashioned USPS thank you notes. I just got a thank-you-note for my thank-you-note.
If only etiquette could get me a job!
Re "nutso" faculty. I agree that every department has at least 1 nut job. We have ours. However, if the nut job is chair, I would seriously question the university's decision to appoint that person as chair and run for the hills. A responsible Dean will know who the sane people are and make them chair (although there's an argument to be made that you have to be insane to become a department chair).
As Chair of the Queens Department, who does not consider himself a "nutso", I am disheartened that one of my colleagues (or perhaps it was me) gave off a weird vibe. We have 26 full-time lines going on 28, and we actually got a new line right before the meeting. Perhaps, the perception of "internal strife" is due to the fact that we now expect to have two jobs with different search criteria. The job below is now on the ASA website and is fully approved. The other job in demography is in the process of being formally approved, but was listed with the ASA employment service. We hope lots of qualified candidates will apply. If you are invited for an interview, we will be happy to share our recent program review that found neither "internal strife" nor "a weird vibe."
Queens College, City University of New York. The Department of Sociology seeks to hire a tenure-track Assistant Professor beginning Fall 2008. Candidates must show promise of excellence in research, including, a well-defined research program and some scholarly publications, as well as excellence in and commitment to teaching. Candidates must have a Ph.D. in hand at time of appointment. The department will consider highly qualified candidates in a wide variety of specialties, especially candidates focusing on race and ethnic difference and inequality, family, sexuality, health, media, or deviance. Applicants should send (1) curriculum vitae, (2) samples of scholarly writing, (3) statement outlining research and teaching interests, and (4) three current confidential letters of reference to Andrew A. Beveridge, Chair, Search Committee, Department of Sociology, Queens College, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY 11367-1597. We especially welcome electronic application, including the reference letters. In addition to offering a BA degree in sociology to several hundred majors, the department (with over 25 full-time and numerous part-time faculty members) offers an MA with a concentration in social research. Appointment to the Doctoral Faculty at the Graduate Center of CUNY is open to professors at all ranks, upon review of publication record. Queens College, located in Flushing, New York has a diverse student body of 18,000 students, and is one of the Senior Colleges in the CUNY system. More information is available at www.qc.cuny.edu. The closing date is October 15th, and we welcome applications submitted electronically to andrew.beveridge@qc.cuny.edu.
This is the other job at Queens. It is pending final approval.
Queens College, City University of New York. The Department of Sociology seeks to hire a tenure-track Assistant or early Associate Professor beginning Fall 2008, as part of CUNY’s demography cluster initiative. Candidates must show promise of excellence in research, including, a well-defined research program and some scholarly publications, as well as excellence in and commitment to teaching. Candidates must have a Ph.D. in hand at time of appointment. The department will consider highly qualified candidates in all areas of social demography. Applicants should send (1) curriculum vitae, (2) samples of scholarly writing, (3) statement outlining research and teaching interests, and (4) three current confidential letters of reference to Joanne Miller, Chair, Demography Search Committee, Department of Sociology, Queens College, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY 11367-1597. We especially welcome applications in electronic form, including letters of reference. The successful applicant will be associated with the developing CUNY Institute for Demography Research. In addition to offering a BA degree in sociology to several hundred majors, the department (with over 25 full-time and numerous part-time faculty members) offers an MA with a concentration in social research. Appointment to the Doctoral Faculty at the Graduate Center of CUNY is open to professors at all ranks, upon review of publication record. Queens College, located in Flushing, New York has a diverse student body of 18,000 students, and is one of the Senior Colleges in the CUNY system. More information is available at www.qc.cuny.edu. Pending final institutional approval.
Wow. Dept chairs posting on the rumor mill. Welcome!
Is our exchange of information on this forum to our benefit (as job candidates), given that search committees will also access this information?
For those who do not know about issues around anonymous postings on blogs, you should read through the Wikipedia article about autoadmit.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoadmit
autoadmit... let's hope this blog doesn't go that far.
I'm fairly confident that it would be hard to track down the identity of any posters. Although, if someone posted something truly offensive, an administrator could probably track down an ip address.
My main concern is that the job search process is stacked against candidates in terms of access to information. Search committees operate in secret, with their own time-lines and agendas. As candidates, our bargaining power increases with more shared information. However, if search committees know what we know, the benefit is lost.
But, that doesn't mean I'll stop checking out the rumor mill. I'm starved for information. And, I welcome dept chairs posting in their own defense. I think the allegations were legitimate, but I also think that a department who is willing to engage its critics shows that it takes recruiting, and its image, seriously - a good thing.
That being said. If posts here turn sour and this place turns into AutoAdmit2, I'll look elsewhere for info.
I would like to state for the record that I do not track ip addresses on this website and will do my best to ensure the anonymity of all those who post.
I, however, cannot guarantee that someone with computer hacking skills will not be able to somehow get that information if they so wanted.
Alba,
We know you wouldn't give away ip addresses. I don't even know if blogger provides for that function.
But, there is a lot about the intra-webs that I don't know about. I'm sure somebody could figure it out...
I think it's fabulous that a chair would post in response to impressions of his department, identify himself and provide further info. I get that it's probably in the interest of searching departments to do things like this, but they rarely do. Kudos to Andrew, and I second the welcome!
11:29 - I don't see what we have to lose. If they know what candidates are worried about, buzzing about, caring about...how can that hurt us?
I also want to thank Andrew for taking the time to post here and offer an alternative view of his department. I, for one, am going to apply for one of the positions which I was thinking about crossing off my list before.
This is not to discredit those who posted about the "bad vibe" - I appreciate everyone's input! But I am very impressed that a department chair would take the time to address the question.
At the end of the day, most of us here are graduate students trying to find a job that will let us pursue some teaching or research work that we really care a lot about. It is a really stressful and sometime scary process, and I really appreciate this blog being here!
Finally, as the moderator of the "other blog" which just lists positions and details about their status, I also do not track visitor information in any way.
-cpl
where is the "other blog"?
http://socjobs.blogspot.com/
just a list of all posted jobs and the info and status. not a discussion board. i'm about a week behind right now due to having to actually apply for some of these jobs myself!
-cpl
things are slow on the job blogs. I've been putting apps together all day...
"But I am very impressed that a department chair would take the time to address the question."
I'm less impressed than I am further creeped out. A more comforting response would be no response. Are search committees now out trolling the rumor mills?
based on the fact that they have been posting in the "open positions" section, i would say they are.
I wanted to apply to one of the schools with an early deadline but my package will not be there until a few days past the deadline. Does it mean that it won't get reviewed?
I have the same problem. I will be able to send my dossier to UC-Riverside tomorrow morning. Their deadline was September 4. I hope they still look at it.
RE: UC Riverside 09/04 deadline.
This isn't a firm deadline. The ad stated that they will BEGIN reviewing applications on that date. Surely, there will be applications coming in after that date.
Also, the ad states that they will continue reviewing applications until position filled. Doubtful that a position will be filled so soon after 09/04.
Go ahead and apply anyway.
I think if you get it there within 2-3 days of the deadline, you are OK. We are choosing our short list about 10 days after the deadline. I'd definitely overnight it, or at least 2-day it, though. You never know which dept. administrator will be a hardass.
Should I/we read anything into the early vs. late deadlines? For instance, is it usually the case that the "less prestigious" institutions will have a really early deadline? It seems awfully strange that some institutions have application deadlines in August, while the bulk of the institutions have September, October, or November deadlines.
Can't read anything much into deadlines. Someone with an August deadline may end up having other searches to do this year and is trying to knock out one early. Or they really want to have leverage to hire their best person. Early searches may imply that the dept had a bead on the line last spring, because it takes time to get a tenure-track position approved through all institutional channels. But later deadlines do not imply that the dept is flaky or doesn't have it together; sometimes people quit, die, or go on leave mid-year, resulting in a rushed spring search.
Thought I'd post the following link (from UC, Berkeley) for those who are uncertain about how to construct a cover letter. The "Berkeley Factor" section is a bit offensive (though maybe true): http://career.berkeley.edu/PhDs/PhDcover.stm
1:26 - I don't see what's creeping you out. If I were a search chair, this would definitely be a place to get a finger on the pulse of the market...remember they're selling themselves too. What's wrong with "trolling" the rumor mill?
"1:26 - I don't see what's creeping you out. If I were a search chair, this would definitely be a place to get a finger on the pulse of the market...remember they're selling themselves too. What's wrong with "trolling" the rumor mill?"
It is just creepy, that's all. A number of folks immediately intervened in the discussion of a certain NYC school, pointing out that EVERY department has its loony (and many have more than one). Case closed. End of story. But no, "chair" responds. Strange. I’m just sayin…
On the issue of faculty/departments trolling a grad student rumor mill, yep, that strikes me as a might creepy too. It is a buyer’s market. The idea that departments could retrieve any useful information for their searches here is laughable.
Anonymous 1:26 and 5:02:
I don't see what the problem is. First of all, this blog is not off limits to department chairs. It is a PUBLIC blog, which means anyone in the world can access it and comment on any of the posts. I think it would be impossible to limit this blog only to those who are job hunting in sociology.
Second, the fact that the chair outed himself by disclosing his real name suggests that he is not trolling at all.
Third, I have no doubt that some department chairs have gotten wind of this blog--likely through word of mouth from a colleague or a grad student. I don't think it is unreasonable for any chair or search committee member to read the blog and/or address potential misconceptions of their institution. How is that creepy? It's not even remotely strange at all..at least not to me.
next year when i'm a prof somewhere, i will come back and read the job blog. its interesting. and if you were a chair and several people had said your department seemed strange, wouldn't you want to defend your department?
i also think it is good for "them" to remember how stressful this experience is for us on the market.
Nothin personal, but if I get hired this year, I definitely do not plan to return to this blog. It's not *that* informative...
Well, not yet! Soon, people will (or should) post when the schools start calling. I guess you could just check the wiki for that, but the discussion that will ensue here is entertaining.
do you use departmental letterhead for your cover letters?
I do - I'm ABD - and it's assumed that we ABDs on the market use departmental letterhead.
However, I was just reading some academic wiki -- somewhere here: http://wikihost.org/wikis/academe/wiki/academic_job-seeking_faq
- and some advice was given to NOT use dept letterhead. The person's main reasoning was that dept' letterhead was for correspondence related to that dept -
what are your thoughts about this?
Nearly all of my applications are out now - if using letterhead is a faux pas, then I am screwed.
I also read that on the wiki but every single cover letter I've ever seen come out of my department used the department letter head and my advisors saw copies of my cover letter with the letter head and never said anything.
I honestly think that we are fine.
I've read advice saying that, if you already have an tt position, it's odd to use your current employer's letterhead when applying for another job. The strangeness comes from the idea that department letterhead should be used for correspondence benefiting the department... and hopefully your departure wouldn't qualify. For an ABD candidate, though, the department will be better off if you find a job. In that case, I don't see a problem.
MID-CAREER QUESTION. I'm a tenured assoc prof who is eyeing the market this year. I've never put myself out there since receiving tenure. I notice that many job ads at the associate level still ask for letters to be sent with the application. I'm a bit concerned about this because of how I might be perceived by colleagues/administrators (I hold leadership positions), particularly if I don't even make a short list or interview. Frankly, I'm reluctant to apply to jobs because I'm fearful of asking some of my colleagues for letters.
Do you think that it would be appropriate to apply and in my letter to stipulate that I will send letters only if I make it through the initial review (or a more aptly worded substitute)?
Not sure how many folks here are gunning for assoc prof jobs. Have you tried the job forums at the chronicle?
http://chronicle.com/forums/
I didn't use letterhead for my cover letters. I'm at a top 5, and I did think about it. But, to be honest, I was also concerned about length, and letterhead forces me to use a large top margin, increasing my page numbers. So I didn't use it. But, either way, I don't think it really matters. You're fine.
My impression for associate (and advanced assistant) professor positions has been that letters of reference should come from outside your department and speak more to your scholarly merits and contributions to the field at large. You might have one letter from within your department that speaks to your teaching skills and collegiality. Your letters should probably be closer to the external letters for a tenure review (since the school is essentially conducting a mini-tenure review just by considering your application at the associate level).
Does anyone have suggestions for books, articles or web sites about how to put together a good sociology job talk?
see Beck,E.M. "The job interview: A lesson in terror," here:
http://campus.northpark.edu/sociology/oow/Newsletter/OOW%20NL,%20Fall%201996.pdf
tongue in cheek, to be sure - but still, an excellent source of advice about job talks, what to wear, how to act...
oh, Beck's piece is on page 9.
Do you have the link to the second installment of the Beck article?
Thanks for the link. I actually think it is pretty informative.
http://www.northpark.edu/sociology/oow/newsletter/OOWspring2004.pdf
both installments of Beck's piece (including "the Talk") are there. Again, it begins on p. 9
Thanks for posting this! I've found that some of the pages on Fabio Rojas' website (http://mypage.iu.edu/~frojas/teaching.html) are helpful, and the University of Michigan has posted short transcripts of some interesting panels about the job market too (http://careercenter.umich.edu/students/gradservices/academic/jtalktran3.htm).
-Anonymous of September 18, 2007 12:49 PM
Washington State just contacted a friend to set up an interview.
Here is a question about interviews (on the phone on on campus). How should we address professors? Should we call them Dr. SoandSo, Professor SoandSo, or just first names? I feel like we should be striving to gain a balance between being respectful and being viewed as a professor (not a student). In observing interactions between Professors, I have notice that they use first names, even when they are not that familiar with each other. However, it seems a bit unnatural to me after all of these years of using Dr. and Prof.....
i have never heard a grad student in my department address a professor as "doctor" or "professor". maybe in written communication, but never in person.
Interesting question. While I've never used Dr. or Professor to refer to folks in my own department, I generally use how people introduce themselves as a model for how I should refer to them during interviews. If someone is introduced (either by self or others) as Dr. So and So, that's what I call them. If they are introduced as John or Jane, then that's what I call them.
I'll echo the previous post. My department tends to use first names. If someone introduces themselves as "Prof SoandSo" call them that. By the same token, I'd be a bit put off by someone that reinforced the power dynamics by having me call the faculty Prof or Dr. (Unless there's just that one prof that doesn't like to be called Billy Bob.)
What do we do when we have 4 really strong letters of recommendation but they only ask for three, should we go ahead and have all four sent or should we cut one?
I say send all four.
I agree: send all 4 out. That's what I've done. How could that hurt you?
I sent four out when they asked for three b/c I had two strong references from my diss advisor and my postdoc advisor plus one that spoke to my teaching from the dept chair at the school where I'd held a visiting position. My postdoc advisor really didn't think the dept chair at the VAP school was a big enough name and wanted me to have another "big name" letter, but I'd already asked her (the dept chair) and couldn't think of a politic way to un-ask her. He seemed to think it was no big deal to have four even when they only asked for three.
Here's how they can hurt you - I found out when I did that...they may choose the first three that come in and ignore the last. If the last is your advisor, or the strongest one, you made a bad move. Some departments just won't look at them all. The administrative person takes them out of the file.
I send four letters and have been assured repeatedly that it doesn't hurt my application.
FWIW, we reviewed all the letters that came in for our applicants (some had as many as 6).
After sending in an application, I've gotten a couple emails requesting further information. These are run-of-the-mill for all applicants, e.g. about my commitment to a school's mission statement. Does anyone have a sense of how formal or informal my reply should be? Can I simply email back a more casual note? Or should I put my response in a letter and attach it to the email reply? And are they looking for lengthy statements, or are they just checking to see if I'm on board with their orientation?
If they want to know how you fit into their orientation, then this is obviously important to them. That means you should make it important to you if you do indeed hold similar views as they. I'd make something more formal; of course, this doesn't necessarily mean lengthy.
When I've been asked for statements in addition, I usually type them in Word and attach them to the email. It will be easier for them to print out and it makes it feel more formal.
Here's hoping for some pratical advice. In all seriousness, I am a massive sweater. There's very little I can do to control it, if I move I sweat. If I talk for long periods of time(i.e. teaching) I sweat.
Sweating is often taken as a sign of nervousness, and when I check people out and they seem to be paying too much attention to my sweating, it makes me sweat all the more.
I'm worried how I'll look giving a job talk with sweat pouring out. I generally bring sometype of hankerchief to wipe the sweat but if I'm talking for 45 minutes I must do that 20-30 times. Anybody have any suggestions for something that I can do? Special sweat gland surgery, pills, drugs, lotions, etc? Help!
A couple ideas:
First, it is rumored to help if you change your deoderant/anti-persperant, based on the idea that you can somehow become immune to your standard underarm protection.
Second, bring along a second under-shirt that you keep in your bag until shortly before the job talk. Change about 10 minutes beforehand - this will lower your body temp and give you a cooler and drier starting point.
Third, sweat is our bodies trying to cool us off. So, make sure you have cold bottles of water available to drink throughout your talk - it's socially-acceptable to sip water (plus, it gives you thinking and deep-breath time). Also, if you use PowerPoint, stay out of the light of the projector, and perhaps even ask if the lights can be dimmed for better viewing of the presentation.
I've never used any lotions/pills/etc. Anyone else have other thoughts?
I too have a sweat issue. I think surgery is too drastic for me. Strong anti-perspirant can help like Mitchum. However, the best is to not think about it too much and to relax as much as you can. keep paper towels in your pockets as well and use them discretely. For more info, here's a site that gives some other options:
http://www.sweathelp.org/
Also, try to do a practice job talk on campus to make you as relaxed as possible. Good luck and I'm sure you'll do great!
re: sweating
I have a good friend (and now employed!) colleague who is a Massive Sweater. Hu had this problem -- however, hu never seemed to be bothered by it. Hu just used a handkerchief (or two) whenever needed. I think that because hu didn't seem to take notice, no one else did either. Or if they did, they stopped noticing after a few minutes.
good luck!
the ranking does not matter so much as most departments act as if they are the top when it comes to hiring. I really find it unbearable the ones who not only refuse to give jobs to their own graduates but also exclude your application in the first place if your are not from the top five schools. It is ironic that despite their effort they can only find a place in the top twenty if not thirty. anyways life is short and there are thousands of other things that we sociologists can do. cheer up people!
Thanks for all the replies so far. I've gone the extra undershirt route. This is aprt of the reason that it's good to make sure they schedule some time before your job talk where you can prepare and be alone.
Changing the deodorant wouldn't help me too much, my issue is sweating profusely from my forehead. Keeping the suitjacket on generally keeps those signs from showing.
I'd actually heard from a gym aficionado that I know that drinking cold water might cause your body to heat up more than if you drink room temperature water, because it has to work harder to bring the cold water to the body temperature. But mentally maybe the cold water might help.
I'm just hoping that the frequency of how often I wipe my brow will just become so routine that people will be lulled into not noticing it. It's just one of those things that you wonder if it makes an impression in people's minds, but I think as long as I can at least control not thinking about it, which might then cause me to make a mistake while giving my talk, I should be okay.
Good luck to you all, especially the profuse sweaters!
I have one more suggestion for sweating. You may want to go to your family physician and see if he/she will prescribe Drysol. It is a prescription anti-perspirant that you put on in the evenings once or twice a week. It worked miracles for me. In fact, after using it for a little while my problem went away entirely.
the prescription you mention is now available OTC. i bought it at my local drug store before my ASA interviews.
the stuff works by actually shrinking your pores so you cannot sweat. this is not dangerous is you use it only in the places where you have localized sweating issues. it lasts about 72 hours.
on the other hand, i have been at a job talk where the candidate sweat so much it was literally dripping off his/her chin. and afterwards when we were discussing the job candidates, our chair reminded us not to forget that everyone gets nervous and it shouldn't affect anyone. we hired that person, in fact. so trust me, if you can publish and teach it doesn't matter whether your sweat is green. however, if you are doing a teaching demo you will want to make sure you don't have a nervous demeanor no matter how much you sweat.
Having been on search committees at 2 different top 10 depts, I would suggest sending any good stuff you have --more letters, more papers -- no one on the search knows what the ad says. Good stuff will not be held against you just because there is more of it.
On the other hand, only send good stuff. One weaker paper can dilute an otherwise good profile.
I don't agree with the request of keeping the information about specific schools to the minimum.
I think that such a request defeats the utility of the blog, that is, anonymity allows for a flow of information.
Re: trying to reduce the number of requests for information (i.e., "have you heard anything about Big U?)
That discussion is taking place in another thread.
There was a discussion a little while ago about proper attire for campus interviews. I'm wondering if you get called in for a visiting professor position or a lecturer position how should you dress? I would think these interviews would be less formal and you mgiht be fine with sweater and slacks. Has anyone gone to one of those interviews?
10:06,
Dress as if you were going for a formal interview, regardless of whether the position is tenure-track, visiting, or adjunct. One's attire does not become less casual with a decrease in the position's rank.
I have a question about the job talk. I've noticed that some people include long lists of references throughout their literature review slides, while others don't have a single reference listed on their slides. Which is better? Or what are the advantages/disadvantages for either approach?
i was told not to cite during a job talk except to identify a couple of the most relevant previous works or to describe some previous research you are challenging. i cite three "big names" that provide the theoretical framework for my dissertation generally. when i outline previous findings, i note that citations are available upon request if anyone is interested in the details of these previous works. then i have a job talk reference list i can give people with references listed by general topic area.
if there is someone at the school where you are interviewing who is relevant, its nice to mention their work as an aside. not on a slide, but say something like, "and of course joe smith here at Super U has looked at how X and Y relate which is also important to bear in mind."
but don't make it gratuitous or overly general. mention them only if you would have cited them somewhere in the diss anyway.
-cpl
that sounds like good advice to me. the point of the talk is to showcase your research, so why overburden the audience with tons of citations? a good deal of the audience may already know the general framework anyhow. also, think of it this way...if they have questions about the literature, those will be easy questions to address at the end. be somewhat strategic with your time. people will feel obligated to ask questions. if that part of the talk worries you, then go a tad light on the literature or methods sections during the talk, as those areas yield the easiest questions to answer.
I was told by my advisor to "situate my arguments in the literature" by citing for major points (e.g. in four or five places). She said that this demonstrates that you have a good knowledge of theory. I am listing a few of the biggest names on the slide, but rarely mentioning names in my actual talk (that way I have cited, but not wasted my talk time).
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to wear for a "video conference" interview? Should I be in a suit or can I dress a bit more comfortably?
I personally would not wear my suit, but I would wear another in-person interview appropriate outfit. Probably khakis and a button down shirt.
what is 'wiki' by the way?
Re: wiki
http://wikihost.org/wikis/academe/wiki/sociology
this is fast! thank you so much!
has anyone know any case where a person with a PhD from abroad got a job at R1, R2 or other places?
10:29 was not meant to be for this list. sorry!
10:36,
What does your comment mean? This sounds like a legitimate question from someone who might be speaking english as a second (or third, or fourth) language, but why say they are "not meant to be" for this blog? Isn't anyone searching for a Soc. position welcome here?
12:06, I think you misunderstood. The person who posted that question meant to post it in a different thread, which s/he did after realizing s/he didnt mean to post it in this one. Relax.
12:06,
deep breaths.
-karl
I'm curious about the U of Minnesota post on the Wiki. I got an email from them today encouraging me to send addl mats (particularly writing samples) by 10/22. I read it as a form letter, however, not as anything more. Is this what folks are referring to? And which is the correct interpretation?
Re:
Minnesota: This is probably the wrong thread to post for job info. But anyway, I too got the email and am inclined to lean more toward the form letter side.
But I do think it is a sign of interest. They explicitly asked for one sample and would not allow for attaching more, because they didn't want to wade through samples of people they weren't interested in. They say in the email they are reviewing files now, so I think it's safe to say they are asking for more info from people who look promising (though I didn't post on the wiki either).
Keep in mind that schools have an interest in keeping their cards close to their chest. I interpreted this as trying to appear like a form letter rather than disclose how far long they are; but nontheless, they indicate in my eyes that they are moving along.
There's been lots of discussion here, and in the other threads, about what to wear for the interviews/job talk - and a suit seems to be the concensus. But, I'm wondering what people are wearing for the arriving & departing days of the visit. Is something more casual appropriate, or is a suit necessary for each day of the visit, even if the only interaction is a drive to/from the airport?
I would suggest "business casual" for the travel days. Wear the suit for your day with the job talk.
I have an interview that spans two days and I was advised to wear a suit or at least a jacket on both days (not just the job talk day).
I have a travel day that is really only travel - being picked up at the airport by SC member and dropped at the hotel. I'm wearing business casual that day. (khakis or skirt, not jeans)
Then I have two days of interview - am wearing suits for that.
I'm playing on "both teams" this year: I'm on the market and my department (where I'm tenure-track) is hiring again.
Here are some tips for on-campus interviewing (beyond the obvious things like be on time and prepared for your job talk):
1) Act interested and engaged (let folks know you want to be there).
2) Know your specialty (and related ones). If you include a concept or variable (even as a control) in your analysis, but don't highlight it in your job talk, make sure you can talk intelligently about at least one major controversy in that area. You're not looking for the definite argument, just reassure folks that you can think on your feet and are thoughtful and reasoned even in areas you may not be expert on. (And, heavens, it's OK to not be expert on everything, so don't pretend or you may find yourself in some ugly minefield.)
3) Don't excessively name drop. You might be dropping the name of some undeclared nemesis.
4) Don't stoke internal squabbles. The department that's interviewing you may have some factions. Sit on the fence and let all sides see in you a potential ally. But, you aren't a blank slate, so DO speak you mind.
5) It's good to know who's who and what's what ahead of time. But don't commit all the information on the department's web site or faculty home pages to memory. Nothing spells "stalker" like a recitation of a three-year-old blog/web entry.
6) Don't ask junior faculty if they are on the market. (Just assume it.) If you "need" to know, ask them (and everyone else for that matter) where they see themselves in five or so years. As in, where do you see your research/teaching in 5 yrs?
7) In terms of dress and appearance, be clean, tidy and, above all, comfortable. If that means breaking in a new pair of shoes ahead of time or dress rehearsals (including tie, make-up, whatever) give yourself the time to practice. Don't glam it up. If you wear a suit or have a jacket, you don't need to walk off the plane wearing it. (It'll just get rumpled anyway.)
8) Don't put up with inappropriate questions. No one should ask you about your sexuality, your marital or parental status, or religiosity. You may choose to disclose what you like (so, if you're a parent, you may ask about schools, e.g.), but those questions (and related probes) cannot be initiated by anyone interviewing you. If it happens (and yes, it will), you should politely evade answering and then discretely let the dept or SC chair know about it. To ignore it hurts the process for everyone.
thanks, 1:56pm, that's some great advice. Here's hoping that I will actually get to use it.
thanks for that list, 1:56. one of the things you mention (practice putting on the make-up before the interview) caught my attention. i am a female who rarely wears make-up. is it *expected* that we wear make-up to the interview? (obviously, not excessively, but is the basic stuff expected?)
3:33, I am at a top ten school and I have seen plenty of female job candidates not wear make up on their interviews. Many of the female faculty also wear no make up, so I doubt this will be an issue that will cost you a job.
I've never worn makeup (or a skirt for that matter) during a job interview/job talk and I've been offered the majority of jobs I've interviewed for (for which I've interviewed...). So I wouldn't worry about it. Plus, if you're not a makeup wearing kind of gal (or you are a makeup wearing kind of guy!) would you really want to be in department that doesn't have a somewhat supportive culture? As hard as it can be to remember, in addition to the fact that the dept is choosing a candidate, you are choosing a department.
I posted the 1:56 list.
Regarding make-up: I didn't mean to imply that it was required. It isn't (and certainly shouldn't be). Personally, I don't use make-up regularly, but I think I might have worn a very little bit when I interviewed. If it's something you usually do or never do, then as 11:39 says you should present yourself as you usually do. If it's something you do only occasionally and you want to do it, then my suggestion is to practice it ahead of time, so that you're comfortable and not distracted by the stuff.
There are departments out there that might have a more formal "business" attire as the dress code norm. If you're venturing outside of straight academic Sociology Depts, you're more likely to find them.
I think the most important thing is to just be yourself! If a department does/does not like you because you wear make-up or you do not, then you do not want to take a job there anyway.
I think this discussion is interesting because I totally wear make-up and dress in trendy clothes. A few of my colleagues remarked about my brazenness in the first year or two of grad school and I said that I like to wear makeup, jewelry, get my hair done and don the latest styles and that I do not judge those do not do the same. One stodgy old professor even casually remarked that women who wear makeup are not taken as seriously, which has only made me work harder at publishing and proving him wrong.
So we need to remember not to change who we are because I am sure SC's can see right through that.
what a wise comment! thank you 5:29!
I have a campus interview coming up and I'm wondering what the grad student component will be like. At my university, two grad students are on the search committee, grad students have a meeting with the candidate, are expected to attend the job talk, and at minimum have a veto for choosing the candidate.
What's it like where you're at?
At my school there are no students on the search committee. There is usually a meeting set up for the candidate to meet with the grad students, but the number of students that attend vary widely (depending either on the time of semester or on what area the candidate is in). I have a campus interview and they don't have me meeting with students at all (so I requested it).
no students on our search committees here either.
-cpl
My school has grad students on the search committee.
But I'm applying to places that don't have a grad program, and at least one of them has undergraduates on the search committee - the SC said they're full voting members. I was thrilled to learn that there are schools like that out there. :)
I heard at SLAC, without graduate students, undergrads may be on the committee, though I wonder how much there opinion (and grad students for that matter) really count in the final tally.
at my slac undergrads are not on the sc. nearly everyone who comes into contact with the candidate does complete an evaluation form. students in the class with the teaching demonstration, students who take the candidate for lunch or coffee, everyone. typically these evals provide feedback to confirm what faculty already suspect. however, they can make a BIG difference if two candidates are relatively equal in potential. The students will usually have a clear favorite in who they can see as a future professor here (in some ways they have a better gauge since they've had profs from across campus).
We do have a grad student on our search committees and this student recruits other students to come to the job talk, come to coffee and/or lunch with the candidate, and later, to write up an evaluation. My sense is that these evaluations only matter if two candidates are close.
Student imput can also weigh heavily when the student is highly regarded in the department and/or works with an influential advisor.
I'll agree with the above posts that student feedback is probably considered as a way to break a tie. There have been debates over whether students should be on the SC, and one prof pointed out that the faculty have a greater interest in picking someone good because they have to put up with that person (which includes any student complaints) for the next several years. I see meeting with students as a great opportunity to learn more about the campus community, department environment, etc.
and if you are subtle, meetings with students can be a good way to find out what the political terrain of the dept looks like. ;-) i found this out by accident during a past visit. students tell give out loads of information without all the impression management that you see with faculty.
Anyone else doing these phone interviews finding them disheartening?
Had an interesting experience during a recent on-campus interview. I met with one of the new assistant prof's and he immediately started asking me if I knew any of the gossip surrounding a rift between two senior people in my department! I was shocked to say the least and rattled off something like, 'Oh all faculty have their occasional squabbles.' Not sure if he was trying to rattle me or determine if I'm a gossip or what. Strange.
absolutely ask about department climate when meeting with grad students! they are the ones to know, and they have no reason not to tell you how they see it. the meeting with grad students is a great time to find out about the culture of the town too.
i also suggest being prepared to answer questions from students as well. they will probably want to know your approach to advising, what classes you would like to teach at the graduate level, and any collaborative opportunities you would bring.
At my job talk last year, the toughest questions came from the grad students and the post docs! So, be prepared for that possibility, too!
Thanks so much for the responses to my question about graduate students' role in the selection process. It's really useful to realize that graduate student have varying degrees of influence. I suspect that level of influence on the job candidate says a lot about what the department's culture is like regarding relationships between faculty and grad students. And, thanks for the specific tip: I'm certainly going to ask to schedule a meeting if it's not on my original schedule!
On a related topic, for those who have interview experience, what's the hardest question/type of question you've encountered?
i think the worse ones are those that do not take seriously your approach. for example, quants who poo poo your work because you use qual methods. those discussions about "what constitutes knowledge" shouldn't happen during these settings IMHO.
RE: Phone interviews. So far my experience has been generally positive, although one was merely a guise for "request more material". I tried a joke with my last one, and it went well. It's so hard to get any read on what the committee is thinking though! Did I just a bomb a question? Are they making faces without my knowledge? It's the waiting afterwards that kills me.
phone interviews:
i've noticed a trend of phone interviews where *everyone* is in a different room. Instead of them all sitting around a conference silently winking to one another, they are all on their own separate phone lines.
I actually liked it, because it put everyone on a level playing field (since no one could see anyone else's gestures).
Anyone else get this kind of phone interview?
the phone interviews i've done recently all involved people crammed into one office. i found it awkward and difficult to hear them. sounded like they were in a cave. i keep telling myself at least it was equally awkward for them too. Having 5 or 6 people all speaking into a speaker phone and crammed into a small office had to be funny for them.
i wanted to share a couple websites that i've been using and thought others might find helpful as you start thinking about life in other places.
be sure to consider cost of living...
http://www.bestplaces.net/col/
to gain some sense of community characteristics for small towns...great for the GLBT index, etc...
http://www.epodunk.com/
3:16 --
thanks for the site. how do you look up the glbt index in various places? i couldn't quite figure it out...
there are limits with the site. if a town is less than 10,000 people or so, they may not have all of the information (including glbt index). enter you city, hit enter, and scroll down the page you get. on the righthand side of the page you find local guides. for most cities, you'll find the glbt, disability, housing, political, etc. guides.
11:32 -
don't forget the qual people who argue that anything done with statistics is the researcher imposing their own interpretation on other people's behavior.
in my experience, some researchers from both qual and quant do not respect other methods. and they're all short-sighted and wrong.
Re: students on the SC
I'm at a top-50 R1, and each time an SC is formed, a grad student is included here. I've done this a few times now - glad I did, because it gave some great insights into the process. As far as I could tell, my evaluations carried similar weight to evaluations of faculty, at least during the process of selecting who to invite for an interview.
I have a campus interview. After the official interview is over, I have a couple hours before my flight, during which I was hoping to puruse the city on my own. I would then foot the bill for the taxi to the airport. Is there a polite way to ask for that, or is that a no-no?
1:06 - That's totally okay, and in fact, shows that you're seriously interested in the position. Certainly volunteer to foot the bill for the taxi, but chances are, they'll cover it.
I have my first on-campus interview this week. Do I tell the SC that I am also applying for postdocs? Any advice would be helpful. Thank you.
I don't think there's any need to tell them that, and I don't think you'd help your candidacy. They'll assume that you are looking at jobs other than theirs. I'd definitely be interested in others' opinions on this.
Don't they already assume you're looking at jobs other than yours? Very few job market candidates put all their eggs in one basket. SCs know that already.
What do you say if they ask you "so, what other jobs are you applying for?"
Is that even legal to ask?
To 7:07:
You say, "I've applied to a range of different places (or exclusively to other teaching colleges or research universities or whatever fits your image). I've had a few expressions of interest but I don't have any concrete offers at this time."
in my experience, they are more likely to ask if you have any other interviews. do expect them to also ask whether or not you have a partner/spouse, prefaced by "this isn't legal of me to ask, but...".
Rule #1: Do not offer up any unnecessary information! Why would they care if you are applying for postdocs? You do not owe them any explanations of your plans.
I concur that they may ask where else you are interviewing. I think it is then acceptable to tell them where (and probably in your benefit). If you don't have any others, the above poster is correct. "Expressions of interest but no other fly-outs yet."
They will probably ask you to keep them posted on your other interview invites, so they know at which point they need to pressure the admin to make a decision. Assuming they want you.
All of this is obviously my own opinion! Take with a grain of salt.
Regarding postdocs--
If there's a postdoc you really want and think you're in the mix for it, it may not hurt to let the SC know that. At some places, they can put you on the faculty, but let you go off and do the postdoc before you actually have to do faculty duties (and before they'll pay you). YMMV, you should talk to your adviser about specifics.
do not talk about postdocs until *after* you have an offer. then you are in the position to negotiate.
Thank you--This is all very helpful about postdocs.
Miraculously, I'm beginning to get some interviews (3) and they all want to know where else I'm interviewing. Do I want to tell them? Am I implicitly being negatively evaluated in light of the other places I don't have jobs? Or positively evaluated for the few places I do?
What's the best way to handle that?
It really depends. I think you should definitely tell them where you are interviewing because you come across as cagey if you don't. In our department, if you have other interviews (anywhere) it puts pressure on us to get you an offer (assuming you're our choice) and then put pressure on you to accept. If you are interviewing at higher-ranked places, it could either make us feel like we won't be able to get you OR that we HAVE to get you (usually the latter). If you are interviewing at lower-ranked places, we relax a bit but you are still seen as desirable (I bet we could get him/her). So...no real help, I know, just our perspective.
i wouldn't tip my cards until someone gives you an offer. then it's time to let all the places you are really interested in know that you now have to make a decision...you would like their position, but you must seriously consider the offer you have. for that reason, you'd like to know their timeline and if you are still in the running for their position. that can really speed up the process.
anyone found yourself witness to big faculty argument during an interview? heard of that happening recently.
I got an interview at the one school I applied to (this is my "soft year" on the market, as some have described it). If they ask, should I tell them I didn't apply anywhere else? Should I mention that I'm applying to postdocs also? I'd appreciate any advice.
You can be vague and just say you've done a very targeted search and applied very selectively.
I got a call today for a fly-out late next week! I had no idea I was on their short-list as there was no phone interview. Just wondering if it is common not to have a phone interview, for which I have been diligently preparing for of course. thanks.
I think it is very common for schools to want to know if you have other interviews. When I was applying to grad schools, everyone wanted to know where else I had applied and what kind of funding those other places were offering. I think it is fine to tell SCs about other places, but it is also fine to say that some other departments have short-listed you but you would rather not discuss specifics until you receive more information from those places.
As for post-docs...
I have accepted a post-doc for next year although some departments where I applied have not yet started contacted people. My adviser said that it is very possible to negotiate a delayed start date if you want to accept an offer and also take the post-doc. You would be asking to take your first year on unpaid leave, and whether or not it counts as a tenure year is negotiable too.
Point being...if they want you, they WILL negotiate.
8:12PM, this is interesting. My advisor told me that it is fine to move forward with postdoc competitions and the job search process simultaneously, but she said that it is very bad form to leave yourself in the applicant pool for any job after you have officially signed a contract for a postdoc. (I thought it might be okay, and kind of got jumped on for that.) Her specific advice is, if you're already shortlisted for the job, let them know the score and see what happens, but otherwise withdraw your name from the pool.
I am not picking a fight. I do not know which is the correct advice. I am just letting you know that there is conflicting advice out there. (If it helps, in terms of experience or departmental culture, my advisor has been on the faculty for 20 years at a top 10.) You might want to see what other faculty think -- I certainly intend to now!
-Fred
Fred--you're right--IF you've signed a contract. Why are you guys signing contracts for postdocs this early in the season, anyway?
I think usually when this comes into negotiations is when you have an OFFER of a postdoc and you really want to do it. Then, the departments may be willing to deal.
I would say, never sign anything until you are sure what you want to do! You can always ask for more time--and will usually get it.
7:51 - That is not uncommon at all. This season I've scheduled two campus interviews with schools that didn't do phone interviews. The school that I currently teach at also proceeds directly to campus interviews (as did my grad dept).
After interviews, I suppose to write thank-you notes. Whom should I write to? Dept.Chair, search committee chair, all committee members?
Is email OK? Or better to be a regular letter?
Here is a question: If you are going for an interview in sociology, how much interest should you express in other schools where you might have overlap (say policy schools, or other things). Does showing interest in those things make the department think you are less interested in them (or that they won't get all of your time), or does it make you seem well rounded? Should you wait on all of this until after (if you were so lucky) you get an offer?
You could first ask a more generic question about how much the faculty works outside of the soc department, with the other schools/departments. If this is positive, mention your interest in the other programs. Perhaps name a person or two from there that you would want to work with, so that it shows you've done your homework.
One of my interviews is going to look at my cv and see if there are people from other parts of the university that work on similar stuff. They see it as a way to help me see myself working there, both within and without the department. Plus, inter-disciplinary stuff is pretty big on campuses right now.
I have an interview early next week at a school that has not posted the job-talks on their site. Hence, I have no idea of my competition. A part of me wants to know who I am up against, while a part of me does not.
Is it strange to ask SC's who else is interviewing for the position? Do I even want to know?
I don't really want to know my competition. I'm anxious enough. I think it's ok to ask how many more weeks the department will be interviewing until the SC meets again to perhaps make a decision. The chair then may say how many other interviews happended/are coming up...
11:11
it is hard to imagine how knowing that information would be helpful. distracting? yes. but any attempt to try and make it helpful would likely not serve you well. i would certainly not recommend asking members of the department.
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