It is possible. UM did not ask for much in their application--just cover letter and cv. From that, they developed a long-short list and asked those candidates to send references and writing samples.
I think that this should be a model that other schools aspire towards. Why ask for a ton of additional materials if you don't need it. CV & cover letter should be enough to form a long-short list. I say, well done UM. Too bad you are not interested in me....
I have not expected updates in the wiki on Saturday. Have the schools - e.g., IUP - contacted you today, or did some of you make updates one or two days after you were actually notified of your application status? I don't have any problem with late updates (any updates should be appreciated), but became just curious.
For those who've recently updated WKU with another X, any idea where they are in the process? I haven't heard anything out of them for a few weeks now.
Um, I'm new to the list (thinking about going on next year, so have been checking the site only occasionally), and was wondering where the list of schools' names with Xs is found...? What's the URL for that? Thanks!!
The wiki says that people have been contacted by Michigan State for more materials. Which position are you all talking about? Population, quantitative methods, or medical sociology?
Temple hasn't contacted anyone on the long-short list because they're not asking for any additional materials. They will make the long-short list into a short-short list soon.
any search committee members out there mind giving us an idea how many applications you are reviewing? of course, no need to name specific schools, but might be interesting to see general comparisons by SLAC, R1 and R2 categories. thanks.
East Carolina sent email notifications to candidates who made the long shortlist, to make sure that we still wanted to be considered as they narrowed it down to the final three.
Someone listed on the wiki that the University of Alabama at Birmingham had asked for more materials (3 references).
Their deadline is not for another week (10/15) and the job posting asked for 3 reference letters to be sent with the application. Was someone asked for 3 more references, or is it possible that someone's application was incomplete and they misunderstood this as a request for more materials?
10:32 - I'm not the X on the wiki but UAB sent me an email to let me know that they still needed two letters of rec before the 15th. I thought they asked for letters originally as well but the ASA job bank only asks for a list of references.
I listed UAB on the wiki. When I got email from UAB, I was suspecting that UAB made mistake in their announcement in ASA job bank. Now, I agree with 10:57. I will take UAB out from the list. Also, it would be good to let other people (who did not apply to UAB yet) know that references should be sent out with their application, because UAB told me that the letters should be arrived by Oct. 5th. If not, last-minutes applicants would not have chance to send references.
12:11 - Thanks for sharing your information. I feel a lot better knowing that I haven't been cut from their list before they even closed the position!!
I got the EEO letter from Indiana Bloomington today. Ironically, it said something to the extent that they would seriously consider my application. This comes after they already have a short-list...
My Indiana letter came on Friday, and I had the same reaction. Are you reading this, Indiana? Feeling slightly uncomfortable? Note that this is a legal requirement, but laws aren't really able to intervene, just co-opted.
RE: Indiana. It seems to me that they probably just contacted the very top of their shortlist-in-progress. After all, there are only 2 Xs on the Wiki. Just guessing here, but it seems like a sensible explanation.
Another RE: Indiana... Do either of the X's (or anyone else with information on IU) read this? Can anyone add any information? X's, if you're out there, will you tell us how you were contacted and/or what you were told?
7:38 is right about Indiana. Schools often call their top one or two choices before they have a finalized short list so those candidates will let them know if/when they get other offers.
I know one of the two people with an IU "X." That person was emailed and asked to let IU know if other schools were interested in them. I have a feeling that 7:38 and 8:19 are completely correct - IU probably just contacted their very, very shortlist.
On another note, I've also been wondering about Michigan. Is there really a short list?
8:19, that kind of sucks for the applicant. What if you don't have another offer? Does that put you at a disadvantage? They probably won't want you anymore if they think no one else wants you. In my case, I'm only applying to a couple of places, so I probably won't have another offer...
But, seriously, I don't think they are asking you if others are interested to try to figure out if they like you. I think they are trying to make sure they don't lose you.
No, definitely don't have an offer yet, but this whole process can be so disheartening sometimes. Work your butt off in grad school to prove that you'll be a good "commodity" in the market, that you won't be so foolish as to dedicate too much time to your family during the tenure process -- and then, maybe you'll get an offer, but it won't come at the same time as others so you can't even negotiate...
sorry, having one of those days when i'm having a hard time remembering why i'm doing this in the first place...
I agree. Being on the job market is not easy. But I'm glad to have this forum where people have generally been very encouraging and supportive. Hopefully it signifies a future of collegiality among this generation of freshly minted PhDs.
I’m wondering if others have received a detailed letter from U of Oregon detailing their timeline (shortlist by end of the month) and asking to contact them if the applicant has many invitations on their plate; just want to know if this is their standard letter or a hint of interest of sorts.
Re: Concordia College: If those who put X's on the wiki were referring to the letter asking for responses to three questions about teaching/mentoring/fit with the school, I think that's a stretch. I got the letter and wouldn't consider it "asking for more materials."
Is it just me or is anyone else frustrated by the fact that we can't see who the people with interviews are. None of the departments that are reported to have scheduled interviews have posted their scheduled talks on their respective websites.
5:56, you've reminded me of something I noticed the other day. The postings for the University of Pennsylvania have a closing date of October 31, but if you look at the department website, they have colloquia dates set aside for job candidates beginning Oct 24. Maybe they got their wires crossed, or maybe it's another reason to get applications in early.
6:10: Hear hear! There's been a little too much bitterness on this list lately. Some of those who are getting interviews THIS year may have had a rough time on the market LAST year, so let's not get snarky.
I applied to U of Oregon and have not yet received the letter. Maybe it will arrive tomorrow, or maybe not. In which case, congrats to those that received one.
No need to congratulate those who got the Oregon letter. The letter was sent to all applicants, along with the EEOC postcard. You'll get yours shortly, I am sure.
In terms of it not being any of our business, at the very least, it would be nice to know what kind of competition we are up against. For example, what schools did thee top picsk go to, do they really have a bunch of sole authored pubs, did they do a post-doc, are they already asst. profs at other schools. Names are not so important. Qualifications are what we really want to know.
The person I know who is interviewing at Chicago has multiple pubs, more than one in the top 3 journals. Tons of stuff in the pipeline. Grants and awards galore, and is at a top 5.
If you are wondering if you might be a superstar, then you aren't one. The superstars have 2-4 interviews _already_ lined up and are planning on 6-8 fly outs.
Me? I'm just waiting for a few weeks until the scraps are left to the mere mortals.
If you want to know what departments are looking for, check the CVs of their latest hires. It doesn't take too much effort to figure out what pubs, grants, etc. assistant profs had before they were hired. Just look at the dates. That's the best rubric.
2 interviews at this point is all it takes to be a superstar? wow...i have that and i'm not even close to superstar status. (a famous sociologist called me that once, which made me laugh...i thought he was joking.) anyhow, rather than quantity, i think i'd base it more on the quality of the institution. they must be top 10 programs. personally, i wouldn't want to be at a top program. have you guys noticed the types of lives junior faculty have at those places? doesn't look fun.
Keep in mind that certain theoretical areas are going to generate more excitement at the R1 schools than other areas. Culture is a big draw right now, and so a big shot culture person is likely to get more interest from R1 schools than someone who's equally well-published but who studies labor movements.
A point of clarification regarding the position at Indiana U. The Search Committee is in the process of reviewing all applications. As soon as the Committee decides that somebody is on the short list, he or she is contacted. In other words, the short list has not been finalized.
Albany has not finalized a short list, but is quite close to doing so. I would expect short list notifications to be sent within a 2-3 days. Give or take, of course.
Ah, the bizarre world of academia. I am trying to think of another entry-level career track that would lead applicants to expect that they should be granted access to the identies of other applicants along with regular reports about the status of their application. None come to mind.
2:42, there's nothing bizarre about it. It's more the result of online resources and a bunch of computer-savvy people than it is of the fact that we're in academia. My friend in med school just used a similar website to get parallel information about interviews and acceptances at different schools.
In response to 1:52 PM. This is for the sociology of religion position.
In response to 2:42 PM. I'm glad you said this. The demands for private information that populate this blog, and the whining that often accompanies them, are astounding to me. I hope it doesn't get to the point of naming names...
You know, it's frustrating that we're all waiting to hear back from schools, but recruitment committees are full of people with real lives. Things come up to disrupt the recruitment process. The recruitment committee at my school has been meeting once/week for about 5 weeks now. At each of those meetings, they shorten the list. Other schools could be doing the same thing. Faculty members only have so much time in their lives, and I'm betting recruitment is not always the top priority.
Irvine is still very early in the process. They have received 200+ applications (which exceeds how many they received last year). Still no long or short list.
2:54: There are worse things than (potential) employees sharing information so as to level out some of their leverage disadvantage. As for 'requests for private info,' I'm not so sure that's the best label for what's going on here. As for our 'whining,' well that's plain snarky...
I think it's funny that so many people, myself included, check the wiki and blog religiously for scraps of information, and now it's clear how unreliable these sources are. True, we should have known that anyway...but our perceptions are selective when we're so anxious...and, yes, desperate.
I totally agree with 8:37. This is incomplete information, at best!
By the way, I am posting the 2008 U.S. News and World Report rankings for sociology (in large part because I think it is bullshit that they charge you $15 to get it). I feel so subversive! Here it is:
Rank/School Average assessment score (5.0 = highest) 1. University of Wisconsin–Madison 4.9 2. University of California–Berkeley 4.8 3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.7 4. University of Chicago 4.6 University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill 4.6 6. Princeton University (NJ) 4.5 Stanford University (CA) 4.5 8. Harvard University (MA) 4.4 University of California–Los Angeles 4.4 10. University of Pennsylvania 4.2 11. Columbia University (NY) 4.1 Indiana University–Bloomington 4.1 Northwestern University (IL) 4.1 14. Cornell University (NY) 3.9 Duke University (NC) 3.9 University of Texas–Austin 3.9 17. Pennsylvania State University–University Park 3.8 University of Arizona 3.8 University of Washington 3.8 20. Ohio State University 3.7 Yale University (CT) 3.7 22. Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.6 New York University 3.6 University of Minnesota–Twin Cities 3.6 25. SUNY–Albany 3.5 University of Maryland–College Park 3.5 27. Brown University (RI) 3.4 University of California–Irvine 3.4 29. University of California–Davis 3.3 University of California–Santa Barbara 3.3 31. CUNY Graduate School and University Center 3.2 Rutgers State University–New Brunswick (NJ) 3.2 Vanderbilt University (TN) 3.2 34. University of California–San Diego 3.1 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 3.1 University of Iowa 3.1 University of Massachusetts–Amherst 3.1 38. Emory University (GA) 3.0 SUNY–Stony Brook 3.0 University of Virginia 3.0 Washington State University 3.0 42. Florida State University 2.9 Michigan State University 2.9 University of California–Riverside 2.9 University of Southern California 2.9 46. North Carolina State University 2.8 University of Florida 2.8 University of Illinois–Chicago 2.8 49. Boston College 2.7 Brandeis University (MA) 2.7 New School University (NY) 2.7 Texas A&M University–College Station 2.7 University of Notre Dame (IN) 2.7 University of Pittsburgh 2.7 55. University of Colorado–Boulder 2.6 University of Georgia 2.6 University of Oregon 2.6 58. Arizona State University 2.5 Iowa State University 2.5 Purdue University–West Lafayette (IN) 2.5 University of California–San Francisco 2.5 University of California–Santa Cruz 2.5 University of Connecticut 2.5 University of Kansas 2.5
Irvine is contacting people this week? Do you know if everyone on the short list is being contacted or just select ones? If I have not heard from them by the end of the week, is that a pretty good indicator that I have not on the list?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. I had my hopes set on Irvine. But it would be nice to know if I should just move on.
Cornell has a bunch of VAPs and post-docs in their soc. department right now. Given that this is an open position, I am guessing they are up for it too. What do others think?
Can I second a much earlier motion to keep requests for information on specific schools to a minimum? It makes the blog a little deceptive when so many new posts are merely requests for info. If people have new info, let's assume they'll post it. Of course this doesn't need to apply to requests for clarification about something on the wiki. Just a thought.
I'm all for constructive comments about what should be posted here, just no nastiness. This entire process is stressful for everyone. Let's not take it out on each other.
I second what 10:27 has to say. I think that people should be able to ask what they want about any school, and whoever wants to answer can. Policing this blog doesnt do anybody any good.
I don't mind anyone asking for information about specific schools. Sometimes we don't realize that we know something until someone asks about it specifically. And sometimes it just feels good to ask.
As a fourth, I don't mind the asking. If you scan over the blog history, you'll see that sometimes it has produced new information, probably for the reason 10:42 cites. What is not helpful, though, is people responding to say, "I haven't heard anything from Fud State!"
BTW, is IU being very, very slow about sending EOE forms? Do a lot of other people whose applications were in on time not have the card yet?
10:57: Oregon's "request for more materials" was done through snail mail letters, not email. But this shouldn't be a sign of anything, because every applicant received this letter.
I don't quite understand the specific requests for posters to indicate HOW they were contacted by the institution. What difference does it make whether people are notified by email, mail, or phone? The info is valuable, I suppose, so most of us can run off and wait by our phones, computers, or mailboxes, desperately hoping for communications we likely will not receive.
Could whomever posted Oregon on the 'request for more information' list on the Wiki please clarify if they just got the letter that everyone seems to have (a letter stating when they will complete review which was accompanied, as I understand, by an EEOO card), or whether they've received additional contact from the school? If its just that standard letter then my feel is that Oregon should be removed from this list for now. Speaking of that standard letter, I actually haven't yet received one even though my app was mailed many weeks ago. I'm wondering now whether I should contact the school to see if they received it.
Oh, and to weigh in regarding requests for info on a particular school, I don't mind it so much. Hopefully everyone will just try to be reasonable about how often they ask.
I am wondering if the people who are being scheduled for interviews at these schools are a handfull of the same people. If you have been scheduled for interviews at three or more of the schools listed (or no somebody who has), could you please "raise your hand"? The reason I think this is valuable is that these people can obviously not accept more than one position. So, I am trying to guage how many of these positions will "open back up" to the rest of us non-stars when the start take their picks.
11:11--I didn't ask how they are contact but how they are informed. Sometimes people have inside information and post it but the committee still didn't contact anyone. Clarification is a virtue of this blog.
Asking for clarification of the wiki illuminated the situation with UAB last week. turned out they weren't asking for more materials, just that the posting had asked for references when they actually wanted letters.
asking how someone heard something can distinguish between first-hand information and friend-of-a-friend.
it would be super-awesome if people could explain when they change the wiki so we don't have a bunch of the "would the person who did so-and-so on the wiki please explain..." posts. just put up a short post with details when you add to the wiki, unless you're adding an X. we know what that means.
I also haven't gotten the standard oregon letter and have been wondering the same thing, but when i checked the priority mail delivery confirmation i realized it took my materials a very ong time to get to oregon (5 days). i think there may be something slow about eugene's mail. maybe both our letters are still on the way :)
On the letters from Oregon to all applicants: I, too, was concerned that I'd not received this letter. But it finally arrived today, Oct 12, to California, with a postmark of Oct 3. Somehow it took a week and a half to traverse literally 350 miles! So yours is likely still on the way, especially if you tracked the delivery of your application. Good luck!
I wondered the same thing about criminology and I stumbled upon a wiki.... there's no sign at all of how current it is. To find it, simply go to our wiki and type 'criminology' over 'sociology' in the url line. Let me know if you find anything more detailed/ current, please.
4:17 - thanks for the info. I appears that that wiki has not been updated for a while. For the jobs listed on the sociology wiki, are any of those for criminology? Other specialty areas have been indicated on this blog, but I have not seen information for crim. Thanks.
To those of you who are only reading this 'Status of Searches' thread: a discussion arose on the 'miscellaneous job market discussion' thread about creating some way of tracking how many different people are using the blog and Wiki. There is now a counter on the Wiki. Please add yourself to the counter as either a 'candidate on the market' or an 'other user'. I think it will be helpful for us to get an idea of how many, and which groups of people are contributing to the blog discussions. Thank you.
6:47 Well, there are loads of sociology positions that have specified that they would like someone in crime and/or deviance (e.g., Richmond, St. Joe's), but there are also some criminology and Criminal Justice programs that are hiring sociologists (among other disciplines, e.g., Irvine, Albany, UMD College Park). I don't think there's anyplace where we can learn about the latter, unless we want to start our own blog/wiki.
6:47 here (asked about criminology). If I had any clue about how to start or manage a blog and/or wiki, I would be happy to do it. It would likely help both those searching for non-crim and criminology positions. Alas, my ignorance overwhelms me.
8:56 - Yes, I sent writing samples with my application packet, and Wisconsin asked for an additional chapter. As for getting applications in early, I think there's good evidence throughout this blog that it pays. However, I don't think those who haven't sent in their apps (to Wisconsin or anyplace else) yet or haven't been contacted for additional materials should count themselves out. It's still a month from closing.
7:45 - Let me play around with the existing wiki and see if I can set something up that's useful for those of us searching for crim positions. It'll be a nice distraction from writing and waiting around to hear from departments. :)
7:33 - I assumed Irvine was sociology, since the crim position doesn't close 'til 11/2. Hope I'm right, since I'm not one of the existing Irvine candidates!
A question for 6:10 -- are you talking about the Wisconsin-Madison position? I was under the impression that this position was just listed on the ASA Job Bank last week (the listing date is 10/10).
6:10 means Wisconsin-Madison open position. Regardless of when it was posted on ASA, the position ad was circulated among faculty, etc. as early as August. This was the point behind the comment about how early schools move and how one cannot rely on their stated deadlines as a safe indicator. It's not "fair," but...
Wisc. probably figures that other top schools had early deadlines and are beginning to interview. If they really waited until mid November to begin review they'd be screwed. My bet is they will have their interview candidate by then.
As far as I can tell, on the ASA job bank, the posting date for a school could just be the last date that the school revised their job announcement. For example, IU has had a job listing up for a long time, but the date is listed as sometime in October, presumably because they updated something in the listing (maybe the salary?).
I've _started_ adding some schools to the criminology wiki so that it will hopefully make things easier and less confusing both for those searching for criminology jobs and those searching for sociology positions. (substitute criminology in place of sociology in the wiki url)
I noticed that Vanderbilt is listed as having a "long short list" on the wiki. Was this information posted by a candidate who was contacted by Vanderbilt, or by an insider? Have people on the list been contacted? Thanks!
The Irvine interviews are for the sociology department, and yes they asked six people. The crime law and society hire is an entirely different department and I get the sense that they are on a somewhat different time schedule.
Purdue has definitely asked at least one person for an interview... I think someone's intuition is right: as soon as the top 5 "stars" sort themselves out, there will be another scramble for the next bunch. It seems like there are several "waves" that don't end until as late as April...if you can imagine being stressed for that long.
Perhaps the Wiki needs a bit of weeding? E.G., Wells' and Willamette's phone interviews are under the 'more materials' heading. I don't wanna rush in and rearrange before others agree.
I don't think phone interviews belong with regular interviews, because that's not what they are. However, I have no preference for whether they should go with short lists or more materials.
I've created a 'phone interview' heading on the wiki and moved in the schools to which it applies. It may be useful as more phone interviews take place.
Keep in mind small schools use phone interviews in a different way than large schools. Many small schools do not have lots of funds to bring out several people, so the phone interview is serving a different function (ie, deciding which person is top choice and should be brought out) than those at large schools (ie, culling out applicants to get a shortlist).
re: phone interviews. I totally disagree. Phone interviews are used to narrow the field of applicants regardless of whether it's a "small" school or a "large" one. It's not just the money but the time (up to two days) on an in-person interview.
It's completely plausible that someone looks great on paper but cannot speak intelligibly about their work or the field. Why waste time and money bringing that person in to find it out?
the vandy job is a senior, tenured slot. as for phone interviews, i think they hold the most weight for those that get them, regardless of where they are!!!! each committee is looking at their own pool of applicants, so the role that a phone interview may play in narrowing down the field is more likely a function of how similarly they rate people than what kind of school they sit in...
from my experience, a phone interview at a slac probably is a bit more telling than at a R1. smaller departments have less people involved in reviewing applications, so they might be able to agree on a short list fairly easily. often their needs dictate what they are looking for -- perhaps more so than larger departments where the bases are covered. my department has never had any problem identifying who is in the top 3...usually the top applicant is very apparent. if we do a phone interview, we are pretty interested in the person. we are trying to figure out who is our first choice to visit. sometimes the administrators can be difficult, so we want to make certain we don't get bogged down there and end up losing our top choice.
from what i've seen with larger schools, the phone interview means you have made the first cut. i've heard of schools doing phone interviews with SEVERAL applicants. the goal is to identify who makes up the top 3 or 4 slots.
this is just my experience...i'm sure others will disagree.
The vandy job at "The Center for Biomedical Ethics and Society at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine" is a senior slot? The job ad says "rank open"?
yes, the vandy biomedical ethics & society job is an open search. i assumed that the listing on the wiki was the soc job, but that could be wrong. perhaps the poster of that vandy info could clarify to which search it refers?
Can you clarify? Do you mean that they have made a shortlist and they are asking people whose letters of rec are missing to send them? Or are they asking for additional material?
On the wiki, it show that NYU has scheduled at least one interview. Does anyone have more information on that? Have they contacted everyone on the shortlist or are they doing it one at a time? Thanks!
Re Stanford--they only asked for a list of contacts in the ad, but a lot of people sent in letters. So they are now requesting letters from those people on the long short list who didn't initially send in letters.
I heard that Berkeley needs to get university approval of shortlisted candidates before they can officially contact candidates and fly them out. Is this true? I know some schools require this.
Re Stanford they are NOT notifying those who are on the long short list who have their letters in. But they are sending out rejection letters in the next few days. So if you don't get one of those, I would assume you are on the long short list
Many departments have to get Dean or administrator approval before inviting people. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
Remember they had to submit a request to get approval for the position in the first place, so requesting funds for the interviews if the next step.
Applicants who make it to the interview will typically have to meet with Deans and Provosts. At small schools, expect a meeting with the President. It is at this point that administrators really become part of the hiring decision. We've invited people in and liked them, but had administrators not like them. Now that's an odd situation to be in. :-)
8:13. Thank you for you comments. I think what is frustrating, at least from my perspective, is that while administrative details are certainly understandable, many of these steps are quite foreseeable. Departments know that since they are doing a search this year they are almost certainly going to be flying out 2-4 candidates. It seems like some of the legwork for these steps could be done in advance, perhaps during the slower summer months. I know it probably seems an unreasonable expectation given the tremendous power imbalance in the academic job market, schools simply don't have to hurry because there are many more good candidates out there than there are positions. That being said, its quite frustrating to have so much pressure built up around this process and then just sit because, in essence, committee members are slow in getting around to their end of the deal. The idea of waiting around until Jan for applications I mailed in late Aug seems a bit cruel. I guess thats what I/we are in for though.
Does anybody have a good idea of how many candidates are actually on the market this year. Our wiki says that there are over 70 people checking it out. I am guessing this is only a small percentage of all of us on the market. If some schools are getting over 200 applications, how many more people do you think are out there looking for jobs? Given that there are a finite number of openings, I feel like we are playing a big game of musical chairs. There arent enough chairs!
9:33 - This is usually not work that can be done in advance. Getting the Dean's approval for fly-outs usually means getting approval for a list of specific candidates. Which means that process can't start until after the closing date.
I understand that we're all impatient, and tortured by this process, but I think we also have to have some understanding that it's not simply a matter of committee members sitting back, relaxing and enjoying their position of power. From my experience on search committees, we are often impatient to get moving and hiring as well (so we can get our top choice) but bureaucratic processes move slowly.
10:35, that's it EXACTLY! Administrators have to approve specific candidates before allocating funds for travel. Search committees can be very quick, but the university machine slows them down. That's how it works here.
When I was on the market a couple years ago, I got a call from my top choice telling me to hold on, as they just requested funds for travel...BUT the university moves so slow they didn't expect to get approval for my interview for 4 to 6 weeks! Needless to say, I wasn't that patient...and couldn't imagine working at a place with such lags.
I received a letter of rejection from Cornell for the Human Development position. Their deadline is still a few weeks away, so they seem to be weeding out applications as they go. There's no way to indicate this using the lists on the other page, but those who have not received a rejection letter from them should probably take that as a good sign.
If anyone here has been contacted to interview with Colorado College, how did they do it? We screen all of our calls and have had a lot of hangups in the past day. I'm wondering if that's any reason to be hopeful!
i'm just guessing here, but they'd probably leave you a message if they wanted to schedule an interview. i find it hard to imagine a university that would call candidates over and over and just hang up. but i can't really say that based on experience.
one place i applied was trying to send me an email confirmation that my packet was complete, but they were mis-typing my email address. someone called and left me a voice mail asking me to call them back.
boy, you should have seen me jumping around the living room until i called and found that they needed the correct spelling of my email (not sure why they didn't look on my cv...)!!!
Sorry 11:58, they did leave a phone message. Honestly though, I totally know how you feel. This market is tough (and ridiculous and, in many ways, irrational).
I have often wished that there could be some system whereby applicants list their top choices of schools and schools list their top candidate a la the placement system for psych internships....
This is not how medical doctors get jobs out of school as well. It would take a lot of the seeming "randomness" out of the market. It would also reduce the number of applications to top jobs by people who don't really have a chance of getting them. The idea is that you only get to list like your top ten choices, and if none of those schools also chooses you in their list, you don't get a job. It keeps everyone honest. But there are flaws in every system. This one's all we've got for now, and unfortunately it is very inefficient.
I understand the urge to find out who is your 'competition' for certain jobs, but even if you knew all the particulars, it won't help. Some things about the process are intangible and don't read on paper. The best advice is to review the CVs of recently-hired people at the schools you want to work at, to determine loosely if yours stands up.
And let's not pressure people to reveal information, please.
Some of you have stated that you have already received rejection letters from particular schools. Just curious--is this an actual "letter" in the mail or an email? I have received all my eoe forms via email rather than snail mail and am wondering if rejections are the same. Thank you.
I am getting a bit tired of the people who keep saying that others are "pressuring people to reveal information." Asking someone if they are willing to reveal something is in no way pressuring them. The whole point of a blog is for people to share information they are comfortable sharing. Lets stop trying to police it!
I don't think the post 2 back was pressuring, just asking. Its fine to ask. Those who want to provide personal info will and those who prefer not to will have their decision respected. No pressure.
***************
Of those who are on the market...
1. For how many is this your "soft year?
2. Among ABDs, how far along are you?
I approached this year as my soft year. I was offered, and accepted, a post-doc last month for next year. I am ABD and do not yet have a complete chapter although I am about 2 weeks away from one. I have finished all my analysis and am now just writing.
I'm not trying to "scope out the competition" as I will not be on the market again for 2 years. I'm just curious...
2,327 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 2327 Newer› Newest»It is possible. UM did not ask for much in their application--just cover letter and cv. From that, they developed a long-short list and asked those candidates to send references and writing samples.
I think that this should be a model that other schools aspire towards. Why ask for a ton of additional materials if you don't need it. CV & cover letter should be enough to form a long-short list. I say, well done UM. Too bad you are not interested in me....
I have not expected updates in the wiki on Saturday. Have the schools - e.g., IUP - contacted you today, or did some of you make updates one or two days after you were actually notified of your application status? I don't have any problem with late updates (any updates should be appreciated), but became just curious.
The Xs should work as long as people are making them just for themselves--and not for friends/colleagues. That's when it could get misleading.
I heard through the grapevine that Riverside had a shortlist and had gone to the dean for approval to invite. I hope that helps some of you out there.
For those who've recently updated WKU with another X, any idea where they are in the process? I haven't heard anything out of them for a few weeks now.
Temple has a long-short list of 10 for the gender/work position.
Um, I'm new to the list (thinking about going on next year, so have been checking the site only occasionally), and was wondering where the list of schools' names with Xs is found...? What's the URL for that? Thanks!!
Have the people on Temple's long short list been contacted yet? If not, how did you find out about their list? Thanks!
3:11 - follow the link at the top of the page for "Sociology wiki."
Thanks, 3:26! :)
Aw crap. IUP called someone?? I was really gunning for that one. Just one person?
The wiki says that people have been contacted by Michigan State for more materials. Which position are you all talking about? Population, quantitative methods, or medical sociology?
I didn't post the comment about Temple, but I have an inside connection there and will ask for confirmation of their status Monday.
Temple hasn't contacted anyone on the long-short list because they're not asking for any additional materials. They will make the long-short list into a short-short list soon.
6:04 -- I marked one for quant methods. I don't know the other fields.
any search committee members out there mind giving us an idea how many applications you are reviewing? of course, no need to name specific schools, but might be interesting to see general comparisons by SLAC, R1 and R2 categories. thanks.
I'm a grad student at an R1 doing a junior search this year, and the admin told me that they've received over 200 applications.
George Washington -urban soc and quant- had less than 5 applications as of the end of last week.
R1 search here; we got close to 200 applications (and more after the deadline, which we did not review).
Those who added (or X-ed) East Carolina to shortlist - how were you notified or were you asked for something?
East Carolina sent email notifications to candidates who made the long shortlist, to make sure that we still wanted to be considered as they narrowed it down to the final three.
8:45 - Thanks for the info! And, damn, I really liked that job!
Oh, and for the person who asked about how many applications each search committee received, ECU said they had received 114.
Someone listed on the wiki that the University of Alabama at Birmingham had asked for more materials (3 references).
Their deadline is not for another week (10/15) and the job posting asked for 3 reference letters to be sent with the application. Was someone asked for 3 more references, or is it possible that someone's application was incomplete and they misunderstood this as a request for more materials?
10:32 - I'm not the X on the wiki but UAB sent me an email to let me know that they still needed two letters of rec before the 15th. I thought they asked for letters originally as well but the ASA job bank only asks for a list of references.
I listed UAB on the wiki. When I got email from UAB, I was suspecting that UAB made mistake in their announcement in ASA job bank. Now, I agree with 10:57. I will take UAB out from the list.
Also, it would be good to let other people (who did not apply to UAB yet) know that references should be sent out with their application, because UAB told me that the letters should be arrived by Oct. 5th. If not, last-minutes applicants would not have chance to send references.
Sorry, I meant Oct. 15th, not 5th. (For UAB)
Does anyone have any updates on University of Kentucky? I noticed that another X was added to their shortlist entry on the wiki. Thanks!
12:11 - Thanks for sharing your information. I feel a lot better knowing that I haven't been cut from their list before they even closed the position!!
I got the EEO letter from Indiana Bloomington today. Ironically, it said something to the extent that they would seriously consider my application. This comes after they already have a short-list...
What a joke!
My Indiana letter came on Friday, and I had the same reaction. Are you reading this, Indiana? Feeling slightly uncomfortable? Note that this is a legal requirement, but laws aren't really able to intervene, just co-opted.
RE: Indiana. It seems to me that they probably just contacted the very top of their shortlist-in-progress. After all, there are only 2 Xs on the Wiki. Just guessing here, but it seems like a sensible explanation.
Another RE: Indiana...
Do either of the X's (or anyone else with information on IU) read this? Can anyone add any information? X's, if you're out there, will you tell us how you were contacted and/or what you were told?
Anybody have any info on U of
Michigan? The wiki says they have a shortlist, but there are no Xs.
7:38 is right about Indiana. Schools often call their top one or two choices before they have a finalized short list so those candidates will let them know if/when they get other offers.
I know one of the two people with an IU "X." That person was emailed and asked to let IU know if other schools were interested in them. I have a feeling that 7:38 and 8:19 are completely correct - IU probably just contacted their very, very shortlist.
On another note, I've also been wondering about Michigan. Is there really a short list?
Michigan is scheduling interviews. I can't see how you can get a shorter list than that.
Any new news on that Temple long short list yet? When do they expect to make it a short list?
8:19, that kind of sucks for the applicant. What if you don't have another offer? Does that put you at a disadvantage? They probably won't want you anymore if they think no one else wants you. In my case, I'm only applying to a couple of places, so I probably won't have another offer...
Whoa, they made you an offer already? ;)
But, seriously, I don't think they are asking you if others are interested to try to figure out if they like you. I think they are trying to make sure they don't lose you.
No, definitely don't have an offer yet, but this whole process can be so disheartening sometimes. Work your butt off in grad school to prove that you'll be a good "commodity" in the market, that you won't be so foolish as to dedicate too much time to your family during the tenure process -- and then, maybe you'll get an offer, but it won't come at the same time as others so you can't even negotiate...
sorry, having one of those days when i'm having a hard time remembering why i'm doing this in the first place...
I agree. Being on the job market is not easy. But I'm glad to have this forum where people have generally been very encouraging and supportive. Hopefully it signifies a future of collegiality among this generation of freshly minted PhDs.
I’m wondering if others have received a detailed letter from U of Oregon detailing their timeline (shortlist by end of the month) and asking to contact them if the applicant has many invitations on their plate; just want to know if this is their standard letter or a hint of interest of sorts.
4:32--It would be a standard letter. I got the very similar letter last year from U of Oregon, but even didn't make a shortlist.
Same letter from Oregon
Re: Concordia College: If those who put X's on the wiki were referring to the letter asking for responses to three questions about teaching/mentoring/fit with the school, I think that's a stretch. I got the letter and wouldn't consider it "asking for more materials."
Is it just me or is anyone else frustrated by the fact that we can't see who the people with interviews are. None of the departments that are reported to have scheduled interviews have posted their scheduled talks on their respective websites.
I'm not frustrated. I can't for the life of me see why it's any of our business.
I'm not frustrated. What is the point of knowing who is interviewing and where? We can't do anything about it.
5:56, you've reminded me of something I noticed the other day. The postings for the University of Pennsylvania have a closing date of October 31, but if you look at the department website, they have colloquia dates set aside for job candidates beginning Oct 24. Maybe they got their wires crossed, or maybe it's another reason to get applications in early.
Most departments don't post who is interviewing for jobs.
6:10: Hear hear! There's been a little too much bitterness on this list lately. Some of those who are getting interviews THIS year may have had a rough time on the market LAST year, so let's not get snarky.
Please?
Whoever put the X by Biola: Do they have a shortlist or did they request more info?
I applied to U of Oregon and have not yet received the letter. Maybe it will arrive tomorrow, or maybe not. In which case, congrats to those that received one.
7:09,
No need to congratulate those who got the Oregon letter. The letter was sent to all applicants, along with the EEOC postcard. You'll get yours shortly, I am sure.
6:10pm said: "I'm not frustrated. I can't for the life of me see why it's any of our business."
Dr. Laura?! Is that you? Are you on the market this year, too? Good luck!
In terms of it not being any of our business, at the very least, it would be nice to know what kind of competition we are up against. For example, what schools did thee top picsk go to, do they really have a bunch of sole authored pubs, did they do a post-doc, are they already asst. profs at other schools. Names are not so important. Qualifications are what we really want to know.
Well said. I thought it was obvious that qualifications were the real issue, but thanks for making it clear. It's definitely nothing personal.
Has anyone heard anything from Cornell (open) or NYU? Their deadlines were in mid September.
The person I know who is interviewing at Chicago has multiple pubs, more than one in the top 3 journals. Tons of stuff in the pipeline. Grants and awards galore, and is at a top 5.
If you are wondering if you might be a superstar, then you aren't one. The superstars have 2-4 interviews _already_ lined up and are planning on 6-8 fly outs.
Me? I'm just waiting for a few weeks until the scraps are left to the mere mortals.
If you want to know what departments are looking for, check the CVs of their latest hires. It doesn't take too much effort to figure out what pubs, grants, etc. assistant profs had before they were hired. Just look at the dates. That's the best rubric.
2 interviews at this point is all it takes to be a superstar? wow...i have that and i'm not even close to superstar status. (a famous sociologist called me that once, which made me laugh...i thought he was joking.) anyhow, rather than quantity, i think i'd base it more on the quality of the institution. they must be top 10 programs. personally, i wouldn't want to be at a top program. have you guys noticed the types of lives junior faculty have at those places? doesn't look fun.
2-4 so far. 6-8 total. Only at top 25 schools.
If you've got that, congratulations. You _are_ a star.
I've heard that Cornell has a short list but does not yet have a final list of candidates. Their short list has twenty applicants on it.
Keep in mind that certain theoretical areas are going to generate more excitement at the R1 schools than other areas. Culture is a big draw right now, and so a big shot culture person is likely to get more interest from R1 schools than someone who's equally well-published but who studies labor movements.
A point of clarification regarding the position at Indiana U. The Search Committee is in the process of reviewing all applications. As soon as the Committee decides that somebody is on the short list, he or she is contacted. In other words, the short list has not been finalized.
Anything on Stanford?
Tnaks, 10:01
Stanford has 260 applications and they had their first search committee meeting last friday, but no word yet
Any news from Albany? Are they close to a short list?
Does anyone have information about Irvine?
Albany has not finalized a short list, but is quite close to doing so. I would expect short list notifications to be sent within a 2-3 days. Give or take, of course.
Notre Dame is indicated on the Wiki as asking for more materials. Which job is this for?
Any information on the Purdue inequality search or on University of Nebraska at Omaha?
Ah, the bizarre world of academia. I am trying to think of another entry-level career track that would lead applicants to expect that they should be granted access to the identies of other applicants along with regular reports about the status of their application. None come to mind.
Thank you 1:48 for the Albany update.
any news from riverside?
2:42, there's nothing bizarre about it. It's more the result of online resources and a bunch of computer-savvy people than it is of the fact that we're in academia. My friend in med school just used a similar website to get parallel information about interviews and acceptances at different schools.
In response to 1:52 PM. This is for the sociology of religion position.
In response to 2:42 PM. I'm glad you said this. The demands for private information that populate this blog, and the whining that often accompanies them, are astounding to me. I hope it doesn't get to the point of naming names...
Riverside is on the quarter system, so school started in late September. As of September 27 they had not started reviewing applications yet.
someone previously said riverside has a shortlist waiting to be approved by the dean.
Re: Riverside
If they wouldn't start reviewing applications as of Sept 27, why did they put a September 4 deadline????
You know, it's frustrating that we're all waiting to hear back from schools, but recruitment committees are full of people with real lives. Things come up to disrupt the recruitment process. The recruitment committee at my school has been meeting once/week for about 5 weeks now. At each of those meetings, they shorten the list. Other schools could be doing the same thing. Faculty members only have so much time in their lives, and I'm betting recruitment is not always the top priority.
Irvine is still very early in the process. They have received 200+ applications (which exceeds how many they received last year). Still no long or short list.
2:54: There are worse things than (potential) employees sharing information so as to level out some of their leverage disadvantage. As for 'requests for private info,' I'm not so sure that's the best label for what's going on here. As for our 'whining,' well that's plain snarky...
4:16
if you're right, how can Irvine have scheduled interviews already??? (see wiki)
4:16 is incorrect. Irvine has had a short list for several days, and is deciding who to bring in this week.
I think it's funny that so many people, myself included, check the wiki and blog religiously for scraps of information, and now it's clear how unreliable these sources are. True, we should have known that anyway...but our perceptions are selective when we're so anxious...and, yes, desperate.
I totally agree with 8:37. This is incomplete information, at best!
By the way, I am posting the 2008 U.S. News and World Report rankings for sociology (in large part because I think it is bullshit that they charge you $15 to get it). I feel so subversive! Here it is:
Rank/School Average assessment
score (5.0 = highest)
1. University of Wisconsin–Madison 4.9
2. University of California–Berkeley 4.8
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.7
4. University of Chicago 4.6
University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill 4.6
6. Princeton University (NJ) 4.5
Stanford University (CA) 4.5
8. Harvard University (MA) 4.4
University of California–Los Angeles 4.4
10. University of Pennsylvania 4.2
11. Columbia University (NY) 4.1
Indiana University–Bloomington 4.1
Northwestern University (IL) 4.1
14. Cornell University (NY) 3.9
Duke University (NC) 3.9
University of Texas–Austin 3.9
17. Pennsylvania State University–University Park 3.8
University of Arizona 3.8
University of Washington 3.8
20. Ohio State University 3.7
Yale University (CT) 3.7
22. Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.6
New York University 3.6
University of Minnesota–Twin Cities 3.6
25. SUNY–Albany 3.5
University of Maryland–College Park 3.5
27. Brown University (RI) 3.4
University of California–Irvine 3.4
29. University of California–Davis 3.3
University of California–Santa Barbara 3.3
31. CUNY Graduate School and University Center 3.2
Rutgers State University–New Brunswick (NJ) 3.2
Vanderbilt University (TN) 3.2
34. University of California–San Diego 3.1
University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 3.1
University of Iowa 3.1
University of Massachusetts–Amherst 3.1
38. Emory University (GA) 3.0
SUNY–Stony Brook 3.0
University of Virginia 3.0
Washington State University 3.0
42. Florida State University 2.9
Michigan State University 2.9
University of California–Riverside 2.9
University of Southern California 2.9
46. North Carolina State University 2.8
University of Florida 2.8
University of Illinois–Chicago 2.8
49. Boston College 2.7
Brandeis University (MA) 2.7
New School University (NY) 2.7
Texas A&M University–College Station 2.7
University of Notre Dame (IN) 2.7
University of Pittsburgh 2.7
55. University of Colorado–Boulder 2.6
University of Georgia 2.6
University of Oregon 2.6
58. Arizona State University 2.5
Iowa State University 2.5
Purdue University–West Lafayette (IN) 2.5
University of California–San Francisco 2.5
University of California–Santa Cruz 2.5
University of Connecticut 2.5
University of Kansas 2.5
Cal Poly Pomona sent out their EOE forms.
Cornell received 240 applications and now has a list of 10.
Berkeley has a short list.
Irvine is contacting people this week? Do you know if everyone on the short list is being contacted or just select ones? If I have not heard from them by the end of the week, is that a pretty good indicator that I have not on the list?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. I had my hopes set on Irvine. But it would be nice to know if I should just move on.
Thank you!
Any idea when Cornell will start contacting their short list?
Is this the Cornell Open Soc. position or the Demography position in the Policy Analysis and Management Department? Thanks.
re: Berkeley
Nobody has been contacted just yet.
anon 10:18
It is the Cornell open position.
RE: Irvine--sorry, but the wiki shows they have contacted people to interview (2). Assuming we can trust the wiki.
Cornell has a bunch of VAPs and post-docs in their soc. department right now. Given that this is an open position, I am guessing they are up for it too. What do others think?
I don't think the VAPs or Post Docs are going to be part of the Cornell recruitment effort.
Has anyone heard from UNC-Wilmington? Their closing date was Oct 1.
How about NYU? That was Sept. 15
5:02...is there a reason why you don't think the VAPs and post-docs would be part of Cornell's recruiting effort? Just curious...Thanks!
I'm eagerly waiting to hear from UNC-Wilmington too. Nothing yet.
And there's also Wright State. Their deadline was way back in September. Still no word here on the wiki.
Can I second a much earlier motion to keep requests for information on specific schools to a minimum? It makes the blog a little deceptive when so many new posts are merely requests for info. If people have new info, let's assume they'll post it. Of course this doesn't need to apply to requests for clarification about something on the wiki. Just a thought.
8:13
I AGREE! PLEASE!!
We've all got our pet choices, but it is annoying to just keep seeing requests. People have posted as info came in.
Has anyone heard anything from Oregon on either of their positions?
6:59,
are you joking?
Are the complaints supposed to be less annoying than people asking for information?
I'm all for constructive comments about what should be posted here, just no nastiness. This entire process is stressful for everyone. Let's not take it out on each other.
this is funny. i was sorta thinking the same thing 6:59. it is a blog...it amuses me that people try to police it.
UO sent a letter to all applicants that said they plan to contact finalists by 10/25.
I may have been too hasty, re: "are you joking." So I apologize.
However, a request for info 6 minutes after two pleas to limit the requests for info seemed a little bizarre
Temple scheduled interviews with four candidates for the gender/work position.
I don't think that limiting the circulation of information about schools is a good idea.
This blog exists precisely for allowing people to share what they know about the market.
Anonymity protects everyone.
I second what 10:27 has to say. I think that people should be able to ask what they want about any school, and whoever wants to answer can. Policing this blog doesnt do anybody any good.
I don't mind anyone asking for information about specific schools. Sometimes we don't realize that we know something until someone asks about it specifically. And sometimes it just feels good to ask.
As a fourth, I don't mind the asking. If you scan over the blog history, you'll see that sometimes it has produced new information, probably for the reason 10:42 cites. What is not helpful, though, is people responding to say, "I haven't heard anything from Fud State!"
BTW, is IU being very, very slow about sending EOE forms? Do a lot of other people whose applications were in on time not have the card yet?
The wiki says Oregon asked for more materials - letters. But their job posting asks for letters in the first place. Did they ask for 4th?
Somebody updated Purdue as shortlisted and also scheduled for interviews in wiki. Can you tell us how you are informed?
10:57: Oregon's "request for more materials" was done through snail mail letters, not email. But this shouldn't be a sign of anything, because every applicant received this letter.
I don't quite understand the specific requests for posters to indicate HOW they were contacted by the institution. What difference does it make whether people are notified by email, mail, or phone? The info is valuable, I suppose, so most of us can run off and wait by our phones, computers, or mailboxes, desperately hoping for communications we likely will not receive.
Could whomever posted Oregon on the 'request for more information' list on the Wiki please clarify if they just got the letter that everyone seems to have (a letter stating when they will complete review which was accompanied, as I understand, by an EEOO card), or whether they've received additional contact from the school? If its just that standard letter then my feel is that Oregon should be removed from this list for now.
Speaking of that standard letter, I actually haven't yet received one even though my app was mailed many weeks ago. I'm wondering now whether I should contact the school to see if they received it.
Oh, and to weigh in regarding requests for info on a particular school, I don't mind it so much. Hopefully everyone will just try to be reasonable about how often they ask.
I am wondering if the people who are being scheduled for interviews at these schools are a handfull of the same people. If you have been scheduled for interviews at three or more of the schools listed (or no somebody who has), could you please "raise your hand"? The reason I think this is valuable is that these people can obviously not accept more than one position. So, I am trying to guage how many of these positions will "open back up" to the rest of us non-stars when the start take their picks.
meant to say "know somebody who has". clearly my brain is fried from all of this...
11:11--I didn't ask how they are contact but how they are informed. Sometimes people have inside information and post it but the committee still didn't contact anyone. Clarification is a virtue of this blog.
Asking for clarification of the wiki illuminated the situation with UAB last week. turned out they weren't asking for more materials, just that the posting had asked for references when they actually wanted letters.
asking how someone heard something can distinguish between first-hand information and friend-of-a-friend.
it would be super-awesome if people could explain when they change the wiki so we don't have a bunch of the "would the person who did so-and-so on the wiki please explain..." posts. just put up a short post with details when you add to the wiki, unless you're adding an X. we know what that means.
I think folks are going to refrain from elaborate explanations in the wiki as long as it tracks IP addresses.
To 11:15
I also haven't gotten the standard oregon letter and have been wondering the same thing, but when i checked the priority mail delivery confirmation i realized it took my materials a very ong time to get to oregon (5 days). i think there may be something slow about eugene's mail. maybe both our letters are still on the way :)
Has anyone received an EOE card or any other notification regarding the receipt of their application from Rutgers?
I haven't received one and I'm wondering whether it means that my file got lost in mail or something???
re: rutgers.
Call them up and ask.
Sometimes it takes a while for the EOE cards to come in. In my case, it took about a month after I submitted my applicant.
On the letters from Oregon to all applicants: I, too, was concerned that I'd not received this letter. But it finally arrived today, Oct 12, to California, with a postmark of Oct 3. Somehow it took a week and a half to traverse literally 350 miles! So yours is likely still on the way, especially if you tracked the delivery of your application. Good luck!
does anyone know whether criminology has a separate wiki and/or rumor mill website?
I wondered the same thing about criminology and I stumbled upon a wiki.... there's no sign at all of how current it is. To find it, simply go to our wiki and type 'criminology' over 'sociology' in the url line. Let me know if you find anything more detailed/ current, please.
4:17 - thanks for the info. I appears that that wiki has not been updated for a while. For the jobs listed on the sociology wiki, are any of those for criminology? Other specialty areas have been indicated on this blog, but I have not seen information for crim. Thanks.
To those of you who are only reading this 'Status of Searches' thread: a discussion arose on the 'miscellaneous job market discussion' thread about creating some way of tracking how many different people are using the blog and Wiki. There is now a counter on the Wiki. Please add yourself to the counter as either a 'candidate on the market' or an 'other user'. I think it will be helpful for us to get an idea of how many, and which groups of people are contributing to the blog discussions. Thank you.
6:47 Well, there are loads of sociology positions that have specified that they would like someone in crime and/or deviance (e.g., Richmond, St. Joe's), but there are also some criminology and Criminal Justice programs that are hiring sociologists (among other disciplines, e.g., Irvine, Albany, UMD College Park). I don't think there's anyplace where we can learn about the latter, unless we want to start our own blog/wiki.
I heard that UC Irvine is interviewing six people for the Assistant Prof position.
is it the department of sociology or criminology at uc-irvine that is currently interviewing?
6:47 here (asked about criminology). If I had any clue about how to start or manage a blog and/or wiki, I would be happy to do it. It would likely help both those searching for non-crim and criminology positions. Alas, my ignorance overwhelms me.
According to the Wiki, Wisconsin is asking for more materials. Did those contacted already send writing samples with their app.?
If so, let it be a lesson to all of us that schools move well before their deadlines. Wisc. is November 15!
8:56 - Yes, I sent writing samples with my application packet, and Wisconsin asked for an additional chapter. As for getting applications in early, I think there's good evidence throughout this blog that it pays. However, I don't think those who haven't sent in their apps (to Wisconsin or anyplace else) yet or haven't been contacted for additional materials should count themselves out. It's still a month from closing.
7:45 - Let me play around with the existing wiki and see if I can set something up that's useful for those of us searching for crim positions. It'll be a nice distraction from writing and waiting around to hear from departments. :)
7:33 - I assumed Irvine was sociology, since the crim position doesn't close 'til 11/2. Hope I'm right, since I'm not one of the existing Irvine candidates!
A question for 6:10 -- are you talking about the Wisconsin-Madison position? I was under the impression that this position was just listed on the ASA Job Bank last week (the listing date is 10/10).
I agree with 9:52. There is a huge difference between U Wisconsin Madison and the other U Wisconsins. Let's not lump all of the U Wisconsins together.
Yes,
6:10 means Wisconsin-Madison open position. Regardless of when it was posted on ASA, the position ad was circulated among faculty, etc. as early as August. This was the point behind the comment about how early schools move and how one cannot rely on their stated deadlines as a safe indicator. It's not "fair," but...
Wisc. probably figures that other top schools had early deadlines and are beginning to interview. If they really waited until mid November to begin review they'd be screwed. My bet is they will have their interview candidate by then.
As far as I can tell, on the ASA job bank, the posting date for a school could just be the last date that the school revised their job announcement. For example, IU has had a job listing up for a long time, but the date is listed as sometime in October, presumably because they updated something in the listing (maybe the salary?).
I've _started_ adding some schools to the criminology wiki so that it will hopefully make things easier and less confusing both for those searching for criminology jobs and those searching for sociology positions. (substitute criminology in place of sociology in the wiki url)
I noticed that Vanderbilt is listed as having a "long short list" on the wiki. Was this information posted by a candidate who was contacted by Vanderbilt, or by an insider? Have people on the list been contacted? Thanks!
The Irvine interviews are for the sociology department, and yes they asked six people. The crime law and society hire is an entirely different department and I get the sense that they are on a somewhat different time schedule.
Purdue has definitely asked at least one person for an interview... I think someone's intuition is right: as soon as the top 5 "stars" sort themselves out, there will be another scramble for the next bunch. It seems like there are several "waves" that don't end until as late as April...if you can imagine being stressed for that long.
I wish we could all grab a cocktail together!
Perhaps the Wiki needs a bit of weeding? E.G., Wells' and Willamette's phone interviews are under the 'more materials' heading. I don't wanna rush in and rearrange before others agree.
I don't think phone interviews belong with regular interviews, because that's not what they are. However, I have no preference for whether they should go with short lists or more materials.
A heading titled: "Schools that have scheduled phone interviews" might work.
-karl
I've created a 'phone interview' heading on the wiki and moved in the schools to which it applies. It may be useful as more phone interviews take place.
Keep in mind small schools use phone interviews in a different way than large schools. Many small schools do not have lots of funds to bring out several people, so the phone interview is serving a different function (ie, deciding which person is top choice and should be brought out) than those at large schools (ie, culling out applicants to get a shortlist).
re: phone interviews. I totally disagree. Phone interviews are used to narrow the field of applicants regardless of whether it's a "small" school or a "large" one. It's not just the money but the time (up to two days) on an in-person interview.
It's completely plausible that someone looks great on paper but cannot speak intelligibly about their work or the field. Why waste time and money bringing that person in to find it out?
so which one holds more weight?
A phone interview at a SLAC or an R1?
not that I have a vested interest or anything :)
-karl
someone noted that vanderbilt has made a long-shortlist. is this for the position of medical sociologist with the medical school?
when is (was) the deadline for the Vandy medical soc job? I can't find it in the job announcement.
re: vanderbilt. there is no specified deadline.
the vandy job is a senior, tenured slot. as for phone interviews, i think they hold the most weight for those that get them, regardless of where they are!!!! each committee is looking at their own pool of applicants, so the role that a phone interview may play in narrowing down the field is more likely a function of how similarly they rate people than what kind of school they sit in...
karl,
from my experience, a phone interview at a slac probably is a bit more telling than at a R1. smaller departments have less people involved in reviewing applications, so they might be able to agree on a short list fairly easily. often their needs dictate what they are looking for -- perhaps more so than larger departments where the bases are covered. my department has never had any problem identifying who is in the top 3...usually the top applicant is very apparent. if we do a phone interview, we are pretty interested in the person. we are trying to figure out who is our first choice to visit. sometimes the administrators can be difficult, so we want to make certain we don't get bogged down there and end up losing our top choice.
from what i've seen with larger schools, the phone interview means you have made the first cut. i've heard of schools doing phone interviews with SEVERAL applicants. the goal is to identify who makes up the top 3 or 4 slots.
this is just my experience...i'm sure others will disagree.
The vandy job at "The Center for Biomedical Ethics and Society at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine" is a senior slot? The job ad says "rank open"?
There is a job in the sociology department at Vanderbilt that is a senior hire (not the school of medicine one). I think it is in mental health.
yes, the vandy biomedical ethics & society job is an open search. i assumed that the listing on the wiki was the soc job, but that could be wrong. perhaps the poster of that vandy info could clarify to which search it refers?
For Oregon applicants: I sent my packet Sept. 10 and I received the standard letter with timelines and such just today!
Memphis sent a form letter saying they are reviewing applications now and will inform applicants of their status next month.
-cpl
An update from Stanford. They have made a cut to a very, very, very long shortlist....they are requesting letters from those people.
Re: Stanford
Can you clarify? Do you mean that they have made a shortlist and they are asking people whose letters of rec are missing to send them? Or are they asking for additional material?
Thanks for updating!
NYU
On the wiki, it show that NYU has scheduled at least one interview. Does anyone have more information on that? Have they contacted everyone on the shortlist or are they doing it one at a time? Thanks!
they didn't ask for letters to begin with - only names of references.
-karl
stanford that is
-k
oops. i sent everything. i hope that does not make me look bad.
I did too. Don't sweat it.
-karl
Re: NYU.
They contacted all interview candidates today. they are not doing one at a time.
got a rejection letter today from notre dame today for the soc of rel position.
Re Stanford--they only asked for a list of contacts in the ad, but a lot of people sent in letters. So they are now requesting letters from those people on the long short list who didn't initially send in letters.
Re Stanford: are they notifying those on the long list of their status even if they sent in letters?
Berkeley
I heard that Berkeley needs to get university approval of shortlisted candidates before they can officially contact candidates and fly them out. Is this true? I know some schools require this.
Re: Berkeley
I can't imagine they need "university" approval, or even to run it by a Dean.
And even if they did, why would it matter to us? It might add to the time, but this waiting game has only begin. Hang on, it's a long haul.
I CAN imagine they would have to run it by the dean. This is common and has to do with meeting affirmative action requirements of reporting.
Re Stanford they are NOT notifying those who are on the long short list who have their letters in. But they are sending out rejection letters in the next few days. So if you don't get one of those, I would assume you are on the long short list
Many departments have to get Dean or administrator approval before inviting people. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
Remember they had to submit a request to get approval for the position in the first place, so requesting funds for the interviews if the next step.
Applicants who make it to the interview will typically have to meet with Deans and Provosts. At small schools, expect a meeting with the President. It is at this point that administrators really become part of the hiring decision. We've invited people in and liked them, but had administrators not like them. Now that's an odd situation to be in. :-)
8:13. Thank you for you comments.
I think what is frustrating, at least from my perspective, is that while administrative details are certainly understandable, many of these steps are quite foreseeable. Departments know that since they are doing a search this year they are almost certainly going to be flying out 2-4 candidates. It seems like some of the legwork for these steps could be done in advance, perhaps during the slower summer months. I know it probably seems an unreasonable expectation given the tremendous power imbalance in the academic job market, schools simply don't have to hurry because there are many more good candidates out there than there are positions.
That being said, its quite frustrating to have so much pressure built up around this process and then just sit because, in essence, committee members are slow in getting around to their end of the deal. The idea of waiting around until Jan for applications I mailed in late Aug seems a bit cruel. I guess thats what I/we are in for though.
Does anybody have a good idea of how many candidates are actually on the market this year. Our wiki says that there are over 70 people checking it out. I am guessing this is only a small percentage of all of us on the market. If some schools are getting over 200 applications, how many more people do you think are out there looking for jobs? Given that there are a finite number of openings, I feel like we are playing a big game of musical chairs. There arent enough chairs!
9:33 - This is usually not work that can be done in advance. Getting the Dean's approval for fly-outs usually means getting approval for a list of specific candidates. Which means that process can't start until after the closing date.
I understand that we're all impatient, and tortured by this process, but I think we also have to have some understanding that it's not simply a matter of committee members sitting back, relaxing and enjoying their position of power. From my experience on search committees, we are often impatient to get moving and hiring as well (so we can get our top choice) but bureaucratic processes move slowly.
10:35, that's it EXACTLY! Administrators have to approve specific candidates before allocating funds for travel. Search committees can be very quick, but the university machine slows them down. That's how it works here.
When I was on the market a couple years ago, I got a call from my top choice telling me to hold on, as they just requested funds for travel...BUT the university moves so slow they didn't expect to get approval for my interview for 4 to 6 weeks! Needless to say, I wasn't that patient...and couldn't imagine working at a place with such lags.
I received a letter of rejection from Cornell for the Human Development position. Their deadline is still a few weeks away, so they seem to be weeding out applications as they go. There's no way to indicate this using the lists on the other page, but those who have not received a rejection letter from them should probably take that as a good sign.
Oops, I posted this on the wrong thread:
Anonymous said...
If anyone here has been contacted to interview with Colorado College, how did they do it? We screen all of our calls and have had a lot of hangups in the past day. I'm wondering if that's any reason to be hopeful!
i'm just guessing here, but they'd probably leave you a message if they wanted to schedule an interview. i find it hard to imagine a university that would call candidates over and over and just hang up. but i can't really say that based on experience.
one place i applied was trying to send me an email confirmation that my packet was complete, but they were mis-typing my email address. someone called and left me a voice mail asking me to call them back.
boy, you should have seen me jumping around the living room until i called and found that they needed the correct spelling of my email (not sure why they didn't look on my cv...)!!!
-cpl
Sorry 11:58, they did leave a phone message. Honestly though, I totally know how you feel. This market is tough (and ridiculous and, in many ways, irrational).
I have often wished that there could be some system whereby applicants list their top choices of schools and schools list their top candidate a la the placement system for psych internships....
This is not how medical doctors get jobs out of school as well. It would take a lot of the seeming "randomness" out of the market. It would also reduce the number of applications to top jobs by people who don't really have a chance of getting them. The idea is that you only get to list like your top ten choices, and if none of those schools also chooses you in their list, you don't get a job. It keeps everyone honest. But there are flaws in every system. This one's all we've got for now, and unfortunately it is very inefficient.
Sorry...I meant to say that this *is* how medical doctors get jobs out of school.
Oh, 12:31, I'm so jealous.
Are you ABD, VAP, or an asst prof. Or is that too much information?
I understand the urge to find out who is your 'competition' for certain jobs, but even if you knew all the particulars, it won't help. Some things about the process are intangible and don't read on paper. The best advice is to review the CVs of recently-hired people at the schools you want to work at, to determine loosely if yours stands up.
And let's not pressure people to reveal information, please.
Some of you have stated that you have already received rejection letters from particular schools. Just curious--is this an actual "letter" in the mail or an email? I have received all my eoe forms via email rather than snail mail and am wondering if rejections are the same. Thank you.
I am getting a bit tired of the people who keep saying that others are "pressuring people to reveal information." Asking someone if they are willing to reveal something is in no way pressuring them. The whole point of a blog is for people to share information they are comfortable sharing. Lets stop trying to police it!
I don't think the post 2 back was pressuring, just asking. Its fine to ask. Those who want to provide personal info will and those who prefer not to will have their decision respected. No pressure.
***************
Of those who are on the market...
1. For how many is this your "soft year?
2. Among ABDs, how far along are you?
I approached this year as my soft year. I was offered, and accepted, a post-doc last month for next year. I am ABD and do not yet have a complete chapter although I am about 2 weeks away from one. I have finished all my analysis and am now just writing.
I'm not trying to "scope out the competition" as I will not be on the market again for 2 years. I'm just curious...
-cpl
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